The Cultural Archtype Hero

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!
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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:04 am

Now that's something I can agree with. At first when I saw "the Cultural Hero of America would be The Protector" I thought, "What does Tony Jaa have to do with America?" But I get it now. The idea is that what defines "hero" in America is those who overcome all odds to defend what they hold most dear.
Not necessarily something dear, just that needs protecting.
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:09 am

Now that's something I can agree with. At first when I saw "the Cultural Hero of America would be The Protector" I thought, "What does Tony Jaa have to do with America?" But I get it now. The idea is that what defines "hero" in America is those who overcome all odds to defend what they hold most dear.
Not necessarily something dear, just that needs protecting.
Why would you protect something that you didn't care about?

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Postby hive_king » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:09 am

Though protecting those you don't hold dear and who don't have intrinsic connection to you does seem to go contrary to objectivist thought.

Guest, you may have not been star1ooker (my mistake), but you admitted to being Leto11, a trolling account.

http://www.philoticweb.net/forum/viewto ... 5&start=70

You also admitted in another thread that you were using "guest" to try to bait or argue or something of the sort with some of the noobs like FT.
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:10 am

Ummm.... no s***?

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:10 am

Because it needed protecting. That's the point.


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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:13 am

You don't protect something just "because it needs protecting" - if that was the case, the world would be a whole lot better than it is. In reality (the place where I live), people protect things because they care about them - they have value and meaning to them.

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:15 am

Since when is heroism realistic AND practical?
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:18 am

I don't see anywhere where anyone said "Heroes have to be realistic and practical."

I DID say that "people protect things that they care about", which doesn't sound anything like what you said.

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:22 am

The Hero doesn't have to protect only the things he cares about. It's even a little more heroic, in my opinion, if he doesn't have a reason to care about some things he's protecting.
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:26 am

The Hero doesn't have to protect only the things he cares about. It's even a little more heroic, in my opinion, if he doesn't have a reason to care about some things he's protecting.
I'd debate this point with you, but really, I can't stop laughing long enough.

"it's even more heroic... if he doesn't have a reason to care about something he's protecting"

:lol:

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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:28 am

I agree with guest on that one. Come on helen, that is the stupidest thing I've seen all night

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:30 am

You may laugh, but I'm serious.

If I see a baby bird and there is no mother around, I would take it home and feed it until it was old enough go back outside. But, that would never happen if what you are saying is true. Because I have no reason to care about this bird, I have no reason to help it; I just let that bird lay there and starve.
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:35 am

In your example, you DO have a reason - you may not have a LOGICAL reason for doing it, as baby birds sometimes die and that is the natural way of things - and there are plenty of other baby birds around - but you would have some (probably emotional) reason to CARE about the baby bird.

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:37 am

If you are going that far, then nothing is without a reason. I still didn't save the bird because it was of the things I hold most dear to my heart.
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Postby eriador » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:37 am

I would say that your natural empathy, combined with a societal understanding that doing it would be "good" count as reasons for doing it. I don't think that anybody does anything without a reason, that's why your statement is so silly.

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:38 am

Perhaps I should clarify, when I said "without a reason" it was mostly just "without THAT reason"
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Postby jotabe » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:49 am

The protector will always be a hero, no matter what country you are talking about. The point is what is protected, to make it look like a model, someone whose example everybody looks up to. And it also needs to be a model that stands the test of time.

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:54 am

Jota, i respectfully say: nuh-uh. in america-with-frenchies their hero is The One Who Perseveres
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Postby jotabe » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:04 am

Well a person who perseveres is also a protector... uh... someone who protects... their... uh... perseverance... right?
Right?
:lol:

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Postby starlooker » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:09 am


Guest, you may have not been star1ooker (my mistake), but you admitted to being Leto11, a trolling account.
*puzzled*

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Postby VelvetElvis » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:43 pm

Well a person who perseveres is also a protector... uh... someone who protects... their... uh... perseverance... right?
Right?
:lol:
And a dog also barks. Oh wait, bad example.
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Postby Tome » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:01 pm

The American hero is just anyone who knows what is right without necessarily being extremely intelligent.

It's this idea that Ameicans are morally correct without being the smartest. This kind of started with Huck Finn and stuff like that. It applies to cowboys, mentioned earlier--no schooling, but went around and shot the bad guy. So, yeah, you could call the American hero a cowboy, or a protector.

I think in America that takes many forms depending on the region. Cowboys in the west. In the Appalachain Mountains, that might by a Daniel Boone/Davy Crockett type figure. Johnny Appleseed, even. Like mentioned before, Huck Finn.

While America was emerging into the world European countries called us stupid, and we responded by claiming to have higher moral values. We learned about this in English last year, using Huck Finn as the example, which is why I feel most comfortable using it to prove my point.

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Postby fawkes » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:05 pm

I think there are several American achetypes: The Businessman/Millionaire, The Actor/Actress/Singer/Dancer, The Hero (cowboys, policemen, firefighters, doctors, etc), and for female teens, The Heiress. I'm serious with that last one. Do you realize how many young girls are emulating Paris Hilton and the like? It's sad. Just sad.
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Postby hive_king » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:24 am

Starlooker, I was referring to the old board, not this one. I can make you a clone if you want.
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Postby jotabe » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:28 am

The American hero is just anyone who knows what is right without necessarily being extremely intelligent.

It's this idea that Ameicans are morally correct without being the smartest. This kind of started with Huck Finn and stuff like that. It applies to cowboys, mentioned earlier--no schooling, but went around and shot the bad guy. So, yeah, you could call the American hero a cowboy, or a protector.

I think in America that takes many forms depending on the region. Cowboys in the west. In the Appalachain Mountains, that might by a Daniel Boone/Davy Crockett type figure. Johnny Appleseed, even. Like mentioned before, Huck Finn.

While America was emerging into the world European countries called us stupid, and we responded by claiming to have higher moral values. We learned about this in English last year, using Huck Finn as the example, which is why I feel most comfortable using it to prove my point.
I wouldn't be so negative about American culture. Over here in Europe, there is plenty of anti-intellectualism, too. Just a small example: a spanish scientist had won an award in USA for his research. When interviewed, he said that even though he researched as his job, he loved it so much that he would do it for free. The next day, an editorialist in in a notorious left-wing newspaper began to speak ill of him, calling him immoral and such.
All around of the world there is a great mistrust of the intellectuals (and i mean the true intellectuals, not the actors, cinema directors or singers). Public enjoys immensely when a scientist is discovered to be a fraud, while true crooks are immune to such thing. Even among kids, those who are more in the geeky and nerdy side of life feel it pretty often, shunned to social awkwardness.

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Postby Jebus » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:26 pm

I think the Celtic Chieftan is the typical Irish hero, wild and raucous and brave. But I also think someone who plays the Buffoon is widely admired too.

As to the American one, you've all moved away from a Hero that is uniquely American to one that is universal. I'd say the Good Cowboy was the most correct, it embodies the morals, strength and independance that the U.S. was founded on and continues to supposedly aim for.


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