The truth is out there...

[Fish Tank]

I'm sure this has been discussed at least once on these boards. But what's your take on alien life?


I think that because of how vast the Universe is; it is only logical for their to be another planet with sentient life on it.

[AnthonyByakko]

Somewhere? Yes. With the unfathomable number of planets in the universe, any number of which being capable of sustaining and nurturing life, one or more can very well have reached the point of intelligence. This is not even taking into consideration the myriad number of dimensions and different universes that may or may not exist.

[jotabe]

There is nothing that prohibits it.

[LilBee91]

Somewhere? Yes. With the unfathomable number of planets in the universe, any number of which being capable of sustaining and nurturing life, one or more can very well have reached the point of intelligence. This is not even taking into consideration the myriad number of dimensions and different universes that may or may not exist.

My thoughts exactly. However, I don't think we'll find any intelligent life any time soon.

[Julius Caesar]

Young Ellie: Dad, do you think there's people on other planets?
Ted Arroway: I don't know, Sparks. But I guess I'd say if it is just us... seems like an awful waste of space.
- Contact

[hive_king]

Of course, it is probable that most alien life is still in something resembling one-celled organisms.

[luminousnerd]

Personally I am pretty ignorant to science. But from what I understand about the theories there are to how life started, I think it's fairly ignorant for someone to say there's no life on other planets. If you are religious and believe religiously that we are the only ones, that's one entirely different thing, and I have no qualms with you. But if you claim to believe in science as it is known to us today, and say there are no other intelligent species out there, I think it's a bit foolish.

However, that could be because I am the foolish one and am missing some part of information. That's just what I believe, given the knowledge I have.

Aside from that, I have a friend who is high up in the government, he can't tell us what he does. But he is a strong proponent of aliens, and said something to me once, that, without actually saying it, basically implied that there are aliens, and "we" know about them.

hive king, why is it probable that we were first? Wouldn't it make more sense if some were in that form, while others were more advanced? Just wondering on your logic.

[hive_king]

I said most probably are, because life spent so much time in that form on Earth, and since all life would likely start off at that level, all life at least was, if it isn't still. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be advanced races.

[luminousnerd]

I said most probably are, because life spent so much time in that form on Earth, and since all life would likely start off at that level, all life at least was, if it isn't still. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be advanced races.

I missed the word most from your last post. I understand your reasoning now.

Who knows how long the species can live though? Perhaps there have been developing species for centillions of years, in which case, if species normally last indefinitely, wouldn't it be more likely that most of them were far more advanced than us?

[eriador]

Given that the universe is expanding, infinite and that we exist, I would say that the chance of their being intelligent life in the universe is 1. Even if you don't count life on earth. Anyways, it's debatable if humans are actually 'intelligent'

[luminousnerd]

Given that the universe is expanding, infinite and that we exist, I would say that the chance of their being intelligent life in the universe is 1. Even if you don't count life on earth. Anyways, it's debatable if humans are actually 'intelligent'

1 out of what? 1%? o__O

I mean sentient, the word intelligent is after all, completely relative.

But anyone who says that humans aren't intelligent is claiming that they are intelligent enough to know this, and therefore contradicting themselves.

[hive_king]

He means 100%.

[luminousnerd]

Ah. My ignorance shows itself yet again

[eriador]

Watch out for the fallacy there! I didn't say that we weren't intelligent enough to know this, I was just making a silly little dig at how stupid humans might be compared to alien species.

Lesson time: probabilities are fractions:

1 out of 2 odds = 1/2

1 out of 567 odds = 1/567

It's just the number of "favorable" outcomes divided by the total possible number of outcomes. Say you roll a normal (spots opposite eachother add up to seven) six-side dice. Your probability of getting an even number is:

3 out of 6 = 1/2

However, if you roll that one dice your odds of getting a 7 are:

0 out of 6 = 0

and your odds of getting a number are:

6 out of 6 = 1

So i said that the 'odds of there being intelligent life' are 1, so all possible outcomes are "favorable".




The more you know...

[luminousnerd]

However, if you roll one dice your odds of getting a 7 are:

0 out of 6 = 0

and your odds of getting a number are:

6 out of 6 = 1

This logic is flawed. First you assume that the die in question is six-sided, yet you did not define it, so I'd say the chances that it's not are around 1/10, a decent enough possibility to acknowledge.

Second, you assume that this dice is all numbers, and has no pictures on it. While perhaps more rare, it should still be considered...I'd say pictures are on about 1/50 dice.

Ha.

[eriador]

Okay.

"If you roll a normal (spots opposite eachother add up to seven) six-side dice" is what I meant. I'll edit

[jotabe]

“I have little patience with scientists who take a board of wood, look for its thinnest part, and drill a great number of holes where drilling is easy.”
-Albert Einstein

[Seiryu]

I believe there are, but unless they develop really fast travel, there's no way they would be able to find earth easily and come here. The chances of them finding other life such as ours is pretty big. It's quite a bit like finding a needle in a haystack. Unless, of course, there are other beings out there, too. That raises their chance and our chance quite a bit, but not by much.

From a RELIGIOUS standpoint, I'd have to say that it's pretty pointless for God to have created so many planets unless he put something on them...unless it's a cosmic joke and they're just to keep us preoccupied in the latter days of our existence. As I tend to not think of God as malicious, I am lead to believe that other life exists out there.

[jotabe]

That wouldn't be malicious... merely playful.
From a religious point of view: what if the creation of intelligence required the creation as well of huge universe, so the probability of intelligent beings appearing would be acceptable?

[luminousnerd]

Okay.

"If you roll a normal (spots opposite eachother add up to seven) six-side dice" is what I meant. I'll edit

Heh, I was just joking around

From a RELIGIOUS standpoint, I'd have to say that it's pretty pointless for God to have created so many planets unless he put something on them...unless it's a cosmic joke and they're just to keep us preoccupied in the latter days of our existence. As I tend to not think of God as malicious, I am lead to believe that other life exists out there.

I agree with you mostly, but I have heard people suggest that heaven is going from planet to planet, that you will still physically exist, and some other theories like that...and that Hell, for example, is a planet. I don't know, it all seems rather out-there to me.

Jotabe, a good question indeed.

By the way, is "Jotabe" the Spanish pronunciation of J.B.? I remember being called Jota Te en la clase de espanol

[Seiryu]

That wouldn't be malicious... merely playful.
From a religious point of view: what if the creation of intelligence required the creation as well of huge universe, so the probability of intelligent beings appearing would be acceptable?

God isn't one for explaining Himself (or Herself) to us.

[luminousnerd]

Good point as well, Seiryu.

Maybe we could have an extraterrestrial club? I am fascinated by it, and we haven't even scratched the surface of all there is to talk about in this thread.

Or maybe just a space in general thread. I'd love to talk about the necessity of leaving the planet, the realistic ways of doing so, time dilation theories, etc etc...

Anyway, someone should maybe start a club

[jotabe]

Yep ^_^ Jota Be is J.B.
Nothing to do with the Scotch Whisky

[Seiryu]

As mentioned in the book Sphere by Michael Crichton, we believe that aliens to be something like what you would find on earth, but the truth is that we don't know. The things on earth are the way they are because of what earth provides. There are pretty good chances of an earth like creature reappearing elsewhere, but they would have to reappear in earth-like conditions. The possibility of that is astoundingly low. So in order to get a creature from another world, it would have to be adapted for that planet or sometimes even a separate dimension that we ourselves are blind to. I mean, can a two-dimensional being really know about three dimensions if he only has his two? (Technically we have four if you count time and they would have three.) So if you by chance have a five dimensional being or something that doesn't appear in some of ours, then can we really perceive it?

Maybe there is a planet where species can adapt in extreme temperatures and without water. We don't know because there's a lack of evidence in our solar system. At any rate, the probability of a species like that cropping up on another planet depends on the organisms inhabiting the planet (I'm a Christian that believes in the Big Bang theory, by the way...) and so forth. We assume we can find a species all by itself (for the most part) which is absolutely untrue. For a proper species to thrive, you would need an entire planet filled with various other types of creatures or, failing that...a species that either doesn't have to eat (which defies earth's definition of "living") or a species that can reproduce quickly and are cannibals. But a cannibalistic society working together to build interplanetary travel? I doubt it.

Yeah...I don't really have a point to all of that, except that I could go both ways on the extraterrestrial creatures. I need solid proof either way to believe either way. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

[luminousnerd]

For a proper species to thrive, you would need an entire planet filled with various other types of creatures or, failing that...a species that either doesn't have to eat (which defies earth's definition of "living") or a species that can reproduce quickly and are cannibals.

I think we're just concerned about the sentient ones. They would almost certainly be accompanied by a slew of other species, but I don't think people would be nearly as concerned about those as they were about a species that has technology.

Of course, there could be a few planets with no technology, and only a non sentient dominant species. Who knows what causes sentient-ness (whatever the proper word is for that, I don't have a clue)

[eriador]

Sentience.

It sounds similar, but is spelled differently.

[luminousnerd]

Sentience.

It sounds similar, but is spelled differently.

Heh...I knew that....

[Seiryu]

Sentience derives from the complexity of the brain as well as (partially) the size. In order for us to have a brain that develops, we have to sacrifice the hardness of our skull for a weaker one.

Either way, I would disagree with you on the "lack of sentience means lack of interest" approach, but part of me wants to agree. The whole reason a government wants an intelligent race is for weapons. If we can gain anything in the way of weapons or vehicles, than it all makes it worthwhile. If not...screw it. I, personally, would rather have an extraterrestrial life form than not have one due to lack of sentience. (Which of course meant we'd have to go get one.) But see...I disagree with you because scientists have been talking lately about finding bacteria on one of the moons of Neptune. Now, unless we're talking about sentient bacteria, then I've just proven you wrong.

[Sibyl]

Yep ^_^ Jota Be is J.B.

And would it be pronounced "Hota Be"? and with the accent on the first or second syllable of "Hota" or "Jota"? (I'm a non-Spanish-speaker, with just the vocabulary and general principles that anyone in the US picks up, what with place names, loan words, and Latino neighbors sometimes)

I know it doesn't belong in this thread, but it's hardly important enough for a thread of its own...

[luminousnerd]

Sentience derives from the complexity of the brain as well as (partially) the size. In order for us to have a brain that develops, we have to sacrifice the hardness of our skull for a weaker one.

Either way, I would disagree with you on the "lack of sentience means lack of interest" approach, but part of me wants to agree. The whole reason a government wants an intelligent race is for weapons. If we can gain anything in the way of weapons or vehicles, than it all makes it worthwhile. If not...screw it. I, personally, would rather have an extraterrestrial life form than not have one due to lack of sentience. (Which of course meant we'd have to go get one.) But see...I disagree with you because scientists have been talking lately about finding bacteria on one of the moons of Neptune. Now, unless we're talking about sentient bacteria, then I've just proven you wrong.

No no, I just mis-spoke. I didn't mean people aren't interested at ALL in non-sentient life forms. I just think that if we find a planet with an ecosystem like ours, the major public attention will be on the sentient race and not on the fleas of their world. And it would be absolutely massive, while if they discovered a world with only non-sentient animals, some might go, "oh wow, that's amazing" but I think there would be some who just didn't care.

See where I'm coming from?

[luminousnerd]

Yep ^_^ Jota Be is J.B.

And would it be pronounced "Hota Be"? and with the accent on the first or second syllable of "Hota" or "Jota"? (I'm a non-Spanish-speaker, with just the vocabulary and general principles that anyone in the US picks up, what with place names, loan words, and Latino neighbors sometimes)

I know it doesn't belong in this thread, but it's hardly important enough for a thread of its own...

It would be the first syllable of Jota, and yea, it would be Hota. And rather than "be" it would be more like "beh" or "bay"...something in between the two.

I only know from a short Spanish class last year...but from what I learned, Spanish pronunciation is pretty easy as all the vowels make the same sound always. It's a cool language.

[jotabe]

It would be "hota", but in Spanish, our /j/ is a lot stronger than our /h/... j very very fricative, while h is aspirated. Being gross, you could say that /j/ is the sound you do when you are "accumulating effort" before spitting a "dense" spit
/o/ is pronounced very similar to the vowel in "talk". This /o/ would be the tonic syllable.
/a/ is pronounced as the last "a" in America.

And that's it for today's Spaniard Spanish lesson with Jota Be

[Fish Tank]

Humans are a cannibalistic species and we've managed space travel just fine.

[luminousnerd]

Humans are a cannibalistic species and we've managed space travel just fine.

No we aren't o_O

[jotabe]

As a summary of the whole history of human species, and using "cannibalism" in a figurative way... we are.
Thankfully we are getting better ^_^