Discrimination against Atheists

[hive_king]

I decided this needed its own thread.

Is there any discrimination against atheists and nonbelievers in America? And for the European and Canadian crowd, I'd love to hear the views of how nonbelief is treated in your home countries.

Discuss.

[luminousnerd]

I decided this needed its own thread.

Is there any discrimination against atheists and nonbelievers in America? And for the European and Canadian crowd, I'd love to hear the views of how nonbelief is treated in your home countries.

Discuss.

Definitely a little. Always will be some. I don't think any more than against any other group though.

[hive_king]

What about George H.W. Bush's comment?

[eriador]

...atheists are the most reviled minority in the United States. Polls indicate that being an atheist is the perfect impediment to running for high office in our country (while being black, Muslim, or homosexual is not).

[fawkes]

You have to wonder how many politicians have lied about not being athiests.

[hive_king]

We have more out of the closet homosexuals and muslims than atheists, I think that tells you something about America.

[eriador]

Ya know, America sucks that way.

[fawkes]

America sucks lots of ways.

[eriador]

Don't get me started.

[anonshadow]

You know, Nick, it's generally a good idea to quote what you're talking about. Assuming that others know doesn't make you look smarter, it makes you look disjointed.

[VelvetElvis]

America sucks lots of ways.

Move.

[fawkes]

Gladly. May I have a few thousand dollars to get me started?

[hive_king]

Sorry, it was posted in another thread that his one is a sort of continuation of. the quote is,

Bush: No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

[anonshadow]

*snrk* Ah, Bush. Such gems he spews.

Edit: I think that whether or not there is discrimination against athiests depends on where you are in the country. In the Bible Belt? Hell yes. In New York? If anything, I've seem discrimination against people who aren't athiests.

[eriador]

America sucks lots of ways.

Move.

No. Because I wouldn't feel good abandoning you guys to what America might become if everybody who didn't like what was going on left.

[LilBee91]

I don't think there is a nationwide discrimination. Like anonshadow said, it depends where you are. In some places (or social circles) athiests are the spawn of satan. In others, they are the only sane people on earth. Yes, there is discrimination, but I think every group has some of that going for them. And as for being elected president--I wonder what the results would be if it were a Mormon vs. an athiest.

[luminousnerd]

Sorry, it was posted in another thread that his one is a sort of continuation of. the quote is,

Bush: No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

A lot of people make up quotes and post them online. I'd like to see your source on it.

If he indeed said it, I don't know what to tell you. He can be a stupid, stupid guy. But not nearly as stupid as Kerry, and not even 1% of Gore's stupidity.

[zeroguy]

A lot of people make up quotes and post them online. I'd like to see your source on it.

If he indeed said it, I don't know what to tell you. He can be a stupid, stupid guy. But not nearly as stupid as Kerry, and not even 1% of Gore's stupidity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be under the impression that this was a quote of dubya. h_k has led me to believe that this was a quote from George H. W. Bush (aka Bush Sr.).

I was kinda wondering about the context of it, though, if Nick would be so kind as to oblige.

[Yebra]

Sourceage

When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice-president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates, had the following exchange with then-Vice-President Bush.

Transparent Spacer
Table Rule 2


Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

[AnthonyByakko]

BUSH FTW.

[luminousnerd]

BUSH FTW.

I was familiar with another meaning of FTW x_x

[jotabe]

I think that while atheists consider religious people to be delusional and uninformed, and while religious people consider atheists to be the spawn of the devil, there will be always discrimination on both sides. Whether it is subtle or not.

[VelvetElvis]

The spawn of the devil? I was pretty sure God made everybody... also, the devil was an angel back in the day, and angels don't reproduce, geez.

[eriador]

I must confess that I would prefer somebody who was an atheist to a "believer," but I think that has more to do with the fact that I don't want to be around people who I have trouble getting along with. This also has a lot more to do with how these people express themselves. The more openly religious they are, the less I like somebody. This means that the vast majority of people who are silent about their beliefs don't bother me at all. So in this way you could say that I "discriminate" on the basis of expressing religion. However, I don't think that this makes it all the way to being full-fledged discrimination, because even though my opinion of a person is colored by their beliefs, I don't think that I really discriminate against them in any way.



Before you guys tear into me, think about yourselves. I have a feeling that those of you who have beliefs as strong as mine also feel in a similar way, disliking (in some minor way) those who disagree with you.


I might add that for me, even though somebody's beliefs do inform what I think of them, that that is a very small consideration in the grand scheme of things.

[jotabe]

you know, eriador... i would have never believed you were that way, from your previous posts.

[\sarcasm off]

[Sibyl]

The spawn of the devil? I was pretty sure God made everybody... also, the devil was an angel back in the day, and angels don't reproduce, geez.

Jhn 8:
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[Sibyl]

The spawn of the devil? I was pretty sure God made everybody... also, the devil was an angel back in the day, and angels don't reproduce, geez.

Gen 6:
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

[Fish Tank]

Most of my friends are Christians. I am an Atheist.


As for how that effects my normal life; not by much. I do not openly spread around that I do not believe in God, or Gods. If I am asked I openly say I am an Atheist. Most people who I have told who are heavily religious always try to "teach me the way of god". They claim they're, "sorry for me" because I'm "going to hell".

Sorry bucko, I know where I'm going when I die, and I will meet you there. The dirt.


As for those who said they'd like to leave America. Get out as soon as you can. You clearly are not doing anything to make it a better place to live.

[eriador]

As for those who said they'd like to leave America. Get out as soon as you can. You clearly are not doing anything to make it a better place to live.

I'd rather try than give up.

[AnthonyByakko]

If you people were really serious about changing s*** you'd join the Free State Project.

[hive_king]

What does the FSP have to do with how atheists are treated in America?

[Seiryu]

To be discriminated against, you would have to be an official religion and last I checked, you were either atheist or not. It didn't really work into its own religion, it was just the belief in lack of a god or The God. Now, religions are usually focused around a deity or some sort of spiritual being, then that makes you an anti-religion. With that said, you aren't really a group per say, you're more of individuals who believe the same way. I haven't heard of an atheist church worshiping nothing (I will not delve into that South Park episode at this time...)

So if I were to discriminate against you, then who or what would I discriminate against exactly? I mean, I suppose I could discriminate against you, but I don't dislike you or if I dislike you, it is not because of atheism, but see, I can't discriminate against your religion. I suppose (and I don't meant to use a negative example) that if you belong to a support group such as the AA, then I could discriminate against them since they're all drunkards and that would be an association discrimination (damnit...that sounds cool, but it's not.) Even though there are associations, it's not like a major standing in the atheist community. Not like the pope being a ruler of the Catholics or whatever.

So back to my main point: how can we discriminate against athiesm as a whole when there's no religion, race, etc. to discriminate against? Yeah, I can discriminate against individuals, but there is no group. I can say I'm a cat lover, but unless I join a group, I'm only being discriminated as an individual. In which case, I would say, "Why is Micah being discriminated against?" which wouldn't make much sense here because no one has an answer.

[AnthonyByakko]

What does the FSP have to do with how atheists are treated in America?

This is the kind of s*** you do I was talking about last night, H_K.

But to be serious for a moment, do you honestly believe any positive change (i.e., towards personal liberty/equality/justice/etc) in government is occuring with any movement/group/party/politician currently in existance, including the FSP? I was just jokingly saying that the grass is always greener, so to speak. I personally support the FSP, I hope that it works - if it does in the next few years like proposed, I'll be on the next plane to New Hampshire.

[eriador]

To be discriminated against, you would have to be an official religion

No. Atheists may not be a well organized, 'official' group, but they can be discriminated against. This is just ridiculous reasoning. Not all black people were part of an official group, but others managed to discriminate against them just fine.

[jotabe]

I am sorry, Seiryu, but that doesn't make any sense. You can be discriminated for anything without needing to be part of an organization. Discrimination is always done against individuals who freely chose their preferences, and find themselves limited for it.
Homosexuals are discriminated in many places, and they are not an organization. Being homosexual isn't even a belief.

Non-officially, atheists can be discriminated out of bigotry, by people thinking "these people are godless, they can't be a good". Officially they can be discriminated by being punished for being atheists (for example, being atheist in Iran, or in Arabia, is a crime punishable with death).