Marijuana...

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Postby Sibyl » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:27 am

uh... when you are talking about brownies... you aren't talking about that kind of sweet biscuit, right? :?:
Well, yes, but specifically Alice B Toklas Brownies.

I believe that the lady's surname is the origin of the slang term "toke", if it isn't short for "token". She was a Bohemian writer of the first part of the 20th century, who wrote a cookbook with her memoirs.

Any brownie recipe will do, with marijuana leaf mixed into the batter before baking. "Brownies" in general are a very dense very chocolate thin cake. Sometimes people make an imitation "brownie" (usually for people who have some strong reason to avoid chocolate) that isn't chocolate, but just the dense thin cake, but when one says "brownie" most people think "chocolate"

From one of the links to the wikipedia article above linked:
"Cannabis or hashish can be cooked into a sweet cake, cookie, brownie, or other baked product to produce a psychoactive food. These items may be known as a hash brownie, special brownie, magic brownie, space brownie or space cake. Eating such a food can result in a similar psychoactive effect or "high" as smoking marijuana, although it may be delayed or mitigated due to slower absorption of the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) through the digestive tract. Some believe it imparts a smoother "high". However there are many accounts of stronger, sometimes frightening, longer lasting highs resulting from eating cannabis. Whereas the effects from smoking cannabis are usually felt within a few minutes, it can take up to a few hours to get high from ingesting it. Contrary to smoking, where one can feel the high coming gradually; the way the THC is digested can result in a significantly stronger, instantaneous high that can last for hours. Products containing cannabis are widely available in cannabis coffee shops in the Netherlands (and various European cities), where consumption use of marijuana is effectively legal.

In pop culture

* The brownie was used in the 1968 film I Love You, Alice B. Toklas, in which a character portrayed by Peter Sellers becomes disillusioned with his mainstream life after falling in love with a free spirit, only to become just as disillusioned with the hippie subculture. Marijuana-spiked brownies are a key plot element...."
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Postby daPyr0x » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:33 pm

My understanding was that putting marijuana in brownies or any other recipe involved making marijuana butter and using that in the recipe, not just dropping some of the stuff in the batter and baking it like that

...Interesting...
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Postby luminousnerd » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:20 pm

My understanding was that putting marijuana in brownies or any other recipe involved making marijuana butter and using that in the recipe, not just dropping some of the stuff in the batter and baking it like that

...Interesting...
You may well be right. I've actually never had "special" brownies before :(
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Postby Sibyl » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:31 pm

My understanding was that putting marijuana in brownies or any other recipe involved making marijuana butter and using that in the recipe, not just dropping some of the stuff in the batter and baking it like that

...Interesting...
Well, that would probably work, since the active ingredient is fat-soluble, and it would surely make a better, smoother brownie, as the dried plant material makes the texture a bit "gritty", which is helped or disguised by using a lot of nuts.
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Postby Bevis » Mon May 21, 2007 10:03 am


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Haven't read the whole thread yet...

Postby Mimx » Mon May 21, 2007 10:19 am

...but I wanted to put voice to my thoughts: Marijuana prohibition has been, is and will continue to be a gigantic waste of resources. Certainly it has not remained illegal because of its harmful effects on your health. If that were the case, then cigarettes would have been outlawed long ago. It also cannot be because the government does not want us to be able to alter our states of consciousness because if that were true then alcohol would be illegal as well. The only thing that I can think of that is keeping marijuana illegal is money. The alcohol industry does not want it legalized, and the government can't figure out a way to monopolize its manufacture and distribution in a way to control and tax the funds.

I firmly believe that the government has absolutely no right whatsoever to tell me what I can and cannot put into my own body when it has no effect on any one else.

I'm not the only one who believes that the prohibition against marijuana is a fruitless endeavour. There are plenty in law enforcement who believe the same way as I do. If anyone is interested, here is a link to their site.

http://leap.cc

There...that's my two cents. Now I think I will go back and read the entirety of this thread.

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Re: Haven't read the whole thread yet...

Postby zeroguy » Mon May 21, 2007 5:30 pm

The only thing that I can think of that is keeping marijuana illegal is money.
Not politics? I don't keep track of the political trends too closely, but it seems like anyone of a high enough position pushing for a nationwide repeal of marijuana prohibition would get shot down pretty quick by the Drugs Are Bad crowd (which seems to be... almost everybody). And opponents would be quick to point it out and jump on them for it, too.

(Although... eh, money, politics... same thing, neh? neh?)

They did try to prohibit alcohol, by the way. It just didn't work since it was already too prevalent at the time. Marijuana, I believe, has always been outlawed in the US ever since its popularity hit a certain point, so it didn't gain that original popularity and lack of a social stigma.
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Re: Haven't read the whole thread yet...

Postby daPyr0x » Tue May 22, 2007 11:27 am

...but I wanted to put voice to my thoughts: Marijuana prohibition has been, is and will continue to be a gigantic waste of resources. Certainly it has not remained illegal because of its harmful effects on your health. If that were the case, then cigarettes would have been outlawed long ago. It also cannot be because the government does not want us to be able to alter our states of consciousness because if that were true then alcohol would be illegal as well. The only thing that I can think of that is keeping marijuana illegal is money. The alcohol industry does not want it legalized, and the government can't figure out a way to monopolize its manufacture and distribution in a way to control and tax the funds.
The reason Marijuana was originally made illegal is because it was publicized as a "black person" drug back in the days of slavery. It continues to be illegal for many reasons; monetary, political and societal.
I firmly believe that the government has absolutely no right whatsoever to tell me what I can and cannot put into my own body when it has no effect on any one else.
Technically speaking, it's not. It's just saying it's illegal to possess these things, and - in extreme circumstances - to be under their influences in public. But I digress.

Is that to say, then, that all drugs should be made legal? No need for the prescription system or anything, just go to your local pharmacy and pick up whatever intoxicants you feel you want to do? That sounds like an excellent idea....
I'm not the only one who believes that the prohibition against marijuana is a fruitless endeavour. There are plenty in law enforcement who believe the same way as I do. If anyone is interested, here is a link to their site.

http://leap.cc

There...that's my two cents. Now I think I will go back and read the entirety of this thread.
That's a very different argument. To say that the prohibition efforts are fruitless and - for lack of a better word - stupid, is one thing. It's a totally different beast alltogether to say that it should be legalized, and different again to say that all drugs should be legalized. Which are you trying to say?
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue May 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Just tell them you couldn't make a reasonable argument because you were stoned. They'll understand.
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Postby Sparrowhawk » Tue May 29, 2007 2:53 pm

My understanding was that putting marijuana in brownies or any other recipe involved making marijuana butter and using that in the recipe, not just dropping some of the stuff in the batter and baking it like that

...Interesting...
More often than not, the recipe will call for simply heating up the cooking oil you plan to use and stirring in generous helpings of marijuana for 15-25 minutes prior to adding the oil to the brownie mix/batter. Once the oil gets to a brown, thicker consistancy than its original coloring, you filter out the actual marijuana and throw it out (or use it further to make butter, as some prefer.) Either way, you're right that you just don't throw your pot into the batter and bake it. It's a little different when you're making cookies or cake instead of brownies, but regardless, you have to extract it prior to the actual baking process. Some people I know throw all their stems and beaners into melted butter on the stovetop and then let the weed-infused butter cool and re-solidify in the fridge, but that's the only instance I know of just popping it into a food and eating it.
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Postby Luet » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:19 am

I figured this was the best place to post this...

My husband works as a network tech and in the IT department they often get large boxes with computers and such. Well, today they got two large computer sized boxes but when they opened them up they were full of marijuana. The police were called and that's all I know so far. Here's a pic (through a window so not great):

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Postby daPyr0x » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:22 am

....save some for me? ;-)
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Postby zeroguy » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:49 pm

I figured this was the best place to post this...
I concur.

Maybe someone just wanted to say thanks for the great job the IT department did on something or other...
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Postby wigginboy » Tue May 27, 2008 10:27 pm

OK. The deal with POT. A lot of people have posted their views for and against it. No one is right, but a lot of you are wrong. There is no conclusive proof that pot KILLS braincells and the same can be said for Luminousnerd's assertion that it regrows them. The site lum cited explained that it is not fully understood yet. What I can tell you is that it definitely has not made me any more stupid. I am 20 and have been smoking marijuana since I was 14. In that time I have graduated with honours from high school (as valedictorian), received a scholarship, have been given five raises at my job since Christmas and am a team leader. I go to work under the influence of pot quite often and it does not hamper my ability to do my job to the fullest of my abilities.

I do agree with the issue of memory loss, but only somewhat. Some have said that THC kills brain cells. This is not true. It doesn't necessarily re-grow them either. What it DOES do and this is noted, is this. The THC molecule is sticky like glue. As it enters the brain, it makes contact with fatty tissue with which it bonds the best. The brain is full of fatty tissue which envelops brain cells. The THC wraps itself around the brain cells, thus causing transmissions between cells to weaken. This accounts for the short term memory loss in marijuana users. I must say, I have used pot for almost seven years and I feel great. My lungs are fine and my mind is fine. I can remember back to when I was two. the only thing that's is really affected is the short term memory and that can be rememdied by stopping use for a month or so.

No, as to the widespread teenage use of pot, I think this is a problem. Even as a user I feel there needs to be some restrictions regarding underage use. If it is ever legalized and regulated, pot should be regulated exactly the same as alcohol is: 18 to smoke it it (or 19 or 21 like some places). This would ensure, for the most part, that kids arent smoking a product like pot in as great of numbers. Kids are not ready for such a change to their cranial chemistry. That is already a time when hormones are coursing through the body making changes and screwing with emotions. It is not good to introduce more chemicals into a teenage body. Now, when you are my age (20) your body is done developing for the most part and doesnt have so many chemicals for the THC to interfere with.

I use pot regularly, though less and less lately. I use it by myself, rather than with other people, and use it to help alleviate the symptoms of depression. In all honesty, my psychiatrist told me to use marijuana. I had used a plethora of other antidepressants, SSRI's and MAOI's and all they ever did was put me to sleep or cause me to have panic attacks. So I went to my psych and he told me to smoke pot. He told me he couldnt prescribe it but that there was conclusive evidence that pot can help alleviate the symptoms of depression. I was already smoking pot then so I quit all the other medications and now I only smoke pot and I find I am more mellow. I don't panic, I don't get angry anymore, I am complacent. I like it. If you had known me before, I used to be an angry and very depressed person.

If you asked me right now how I felt, I would be mixed on this issue. I do agree with the use of marijuana for treating medical conditions. I do not agree with recreational use just because people feel like getting high. That leads to a behavioural addiction. If you use medically, the way God likely intended, then it does all that you want it to and more. Why do you think they prescribe it to cancer patients? Because it alleviates the pain they feel after chemo. It helps them eat (ever hear of the munchies?). AIDS patients use it for similar reasons. Glaucoma patients use it to alleviate pressure in the eye. Depressive people like me use it to lessen symptoms that could lead to problems.

Pot is not for everyone but it is beneficial. I wish everyone who has a stereotype about it would shut up because chances are you have not tried it. If you have something negative to say about pot and you HAVE tried it, then I will listen with open ears, but for those who spout that they know everything about it and have never tried it, I have no respect for you. Hearsay and observation mean nothing with an issue that lies in the cognitive mind.



EDIT: any pot brownies I have ever made have consisted of normal brownie mix from scratch and between an 8th and a quarter ounce of pot. This recipe has proved to work very well for me. As far as I know, the use of Budder in such brownies is only practised by those who have access to it. I do not so I add free-leaf bud to my brownies.


(PS, Budder is a product that is sold commercially. It is a fusion of cannabinoids such as THC and a fatty substance or just the THC oil itself whipped like butter.)

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Postby daPyr0x » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:29 am

*bump*

So, right after Obama was elected, he decided he wanted to respond directly to the people, so he asked to have questions submitted on the internet and he would address the top rated questions personally. After having done some slimy things, the Prime Minister of Canada decided this might be a good way to reconnect with the people as well. In both countries, the questions that had the most votes revolved around marijuana legalization.
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PATRICK PICHETTE: It was the question with the most votes, tackled the subject of marijuana. And it is written as follows: “A majority of Canadians, when polled, say they believe marijuana should be legal for adults, just like alcohol. Why don’t you end the war on drugs and focus on violent criminals?”

RT. HON. STEPHEN HARPER: Well, it’s a good question. I’m not sure I’ve seen this particular poll. There are different polls on this subject that show different things, but you know, I have to say young children, I guess they’re now…Ben and Rachel are now getting pretty close to 14 and 11, but maybe they’re not that young, but they are at the age where, you know, they will increasingly come into contact with drug use, and I guess as a parent, you know, this is the last thing I want to see for my kids or anyone else’s children. You know, I understand that people defend the use of drugs, but that said, I don’t think…I think I’ve been very fortunate to live a drug-free life, and I don’t meet many people who’ve led a drug-free life who regret it. Met a lot of people who haven’t, who’ve regretted it. So this is something that we want to encourage obviously for our children, for everybody’s children. Now, I also want people to understand what we’re really talking about here when we’re talking about the drug trade. You know, when people say focus on violent crime instead of drugs, and yeah, you know, there’s lots of crimes a lot worse than, you know, casual use of marijuana. But when people are buying from the drug trade, they are not buying from their neighbour. They are buying from international cartels that are involved in unimaginable violence and intimidation and social disaster and catastrophe all across the world. All across the world. You know, and I just wish people would understand that, and not just on drugs. Even when people buy, you know, an illegal carton of cigarettes and they avoid tax, that they really understand the kind of criminal networks that they are supporting, and the damage they do. Now, you know, I know some people say if you just legalized it, you know, you’d get the money and all would be well. But I think that rests on the assumption that somehow drugs are bad because they’re illegal. The reason drugs…it’s not that. The reason drugs are illegal is because they are bad. And even if these things were legalized, I can predict with a lot of confidence that these would never be respectable businesses run by respectable people. Because the very nature of the dependency they create, the damage they create, the social upheaval and catastrophe they create, particularly in third world countries…I mean, you look now, you look at Latin America, some of the countries to the south of us, and the damage the drug trade is doing, not just to people’s lives as drug users. Look at the violence it’s creating in neighbourhoods, the destruction of social systems, of families, of governmental institutions, the corruption of police forces. I mean, these are terrible, terrible organizations, and while I know people, you know, have different views, I must admit myself sometimes I’m frustrated by how little impact governments have been able to have on the drug trade internationally. But we should not fool ourselves into thinking that if we somehow stopped trying to deal with it, it would suddenly turn into a nice, wholesome industry. It will never be that. And I think we all need to understand that, and we all need to make sure our kids understand, not just that our kids…hopefully not just understand the damage drugs can do to them, but they understand as well the wider social disaster they are contributing to if they, through use of their money, fund organizations that produce and deliver elicit narcotics.
This pisses me off to no end. Marijuana businesses would never be respectable or run by respectable people? The majority of people who took interest in this forum made a point to say they want to see it legalized, and you have the gall to infer that these people aren't respectable? Eugh, such ridiculously stupid logic. "It's not that it's bad 'cause it's illegal, it's illegal 'cause it's bad. Drugs are bad, mmmkay? Drugs are bad because people traffic them illegally, and those who traffic illegally are often involved in other bad and illegal things." But wait, there's more! If it wasn't illegal, if the production and distribution of the substance was legitimate and controlled, how would it still contribute to the bane of society. Damn Bayer and your pharmacist, they'll never be respectable businesses or people because they distribute drugs.

What pisses me off is not the current legal status of the drug, it's that the people of both this country and the US are overwhelmingly vocal about their realization that the laws are not currently appropriate, and yet the politicians dodge the questions and spit out constant rhetoric. That's frustrating to me.
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Postby jotabe » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:48 am

Never expect a lot of insight from politicians, dap. Their heads are full of cotton, hay and rags.
I'd love to point out the delicious hypocrisy that is saying, as many politicians in Spain do, that you can't push alcohol officially into the drug cathegory because it supports a large industry that creates job for many people. They chose to ignore that so does opium and cannabis in other countries.

Drugs aren't bad because of the violence caused in their trafficking; drugs are bad because they temporarily or permanently (depending on the drug) disable people from taking fully conscious and conscientious decision.
You can't allow people to be under the influence of drugs (any drugs, including alcohol) in public places, because they are a danger to others (and to themselves, but honestly, i don't care that much). In private places, it's their call.

In any case, I can easily agree that the traders of hypothetically legalized drugs would be respectable businessmen. Anyone who sells mind-altering substances to people without medical prescription is not respectable in my book. Of course, respectability is a completely subjective matter.
And no, i don't consider bars that sell alcohol to be respectable businesses... it's worse than pot dealing: alcohol is way more dangerous.
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Postby BonitoDeMadrid » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:49 pm

A line that especially bugged me from the Prime Minister of Canada's answer:
And even if these things were legalized, I can predict with a lot of confidence that these would never be respectable businesses run by respectable people
this sentence doesn't pass any test- the test of logic (your government can decide who can sell cannabis and who can't, and if someone makes/sells "moonshine pot" you can arrest them, can't you?), the test of trial and error (I don't think illegal pot dealing is very popular in the Netherlands, say, where pot is legal), or the test of history (a few centuries ago, with prior knowledge, you could say the same things, and worse, about cigarettes, and there's very little illegal cigarette dealings by "fishy people" today).

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Postby zeroguy » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:43 pm

Marijuana businesses would never be respectable or run by respectable people?
Yes, that does strike me as particularly silly. There are already marijuana-related businesses in California that seem fairly respectable to me, given the circumstances.

Speaking of which, isn't there a marijuana legalization proposition in California coming up soon?
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Postby Satya » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:00 am

Interesting that this topic comes back around now.. There's a vote coming up in Wisconsin for medical marijuana; I'll probably be at a small rally in support this weekend.

Cannabis is not a drug - it's a resource. It's food (can be made into high-protein, non-psychoactive ingredients), it's fuel (as viable as any other energy source), it's clothing (strong and durable fibers), and it's medicine (for problems ranging from chemotherapy reactions, pain-management, anxiety, depression, ALS, arthritis and many more.)

This resource remains banned because of the knee-jerk hysteria of a bunch of prudish reactionaries in the '20s. Who do you think wanted this product banned and want it to remain so now? Not the doctors and scientists of the day or now, but food producers, fuel providers, textile manufactures and now pharmaceutical companies.

How can alcohol and cigarettes be perfectly legal for any adult to purchase as much as they want at the local convenience store, but this product (even it's non-psychoactive elements, especially) are banned from production?

Do any of you know anything about Salvia? That's legal and it's likely 10 times more dangerous.

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Postby jotabe » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:45 am

and it's medicine (for problems ranging from chemotherapy reactions, pain-management, anxiety, depression, ALS, arthritis and many more.)
This is interesting. I've known a person who had bipolar disorder but he often couldn't afford the medication (he was at college). He also smoked cannabis and told me it was actually helpful for his disease. I didn't actually believe him, i just figured that it makes you feel good, and having bipolar is bad enough as to deserve some form of relief.
So i've just checked wiki and it looks like there are conflicting reports (cannabinoids could worsen the mania phase), but looks like overall it improves the condition.
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Postby Satya » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:53 am

No doubt, there are positive effects and negative effects. Just as there are early reports of cannibinoids acting on the brain in a way as to prevent or delay the onset of Alzheimer's in older users of marijuana. We don't know for sure, or if whether the positive benefit outweighs the negative; but what we do know is that it's a non-toxic, impossible to overdose drug that has numerous legitimate benefits for immediate medical legalization and many more possible if research and development were fully allowed.

Edit, not to mention that other numerous legitimate uses in manufacturing such as food and textiles and as an alternative energy source.

By the way, the Declaration of Independence was written on hemp paper. With hemp ink.

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Postby buckshot » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:43 am

Why waste the money on pot when so many great cigars are out there! 8)

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Postby Satya » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:23 pm

because tobacco is the most useless s*** on earth... next to politicians.

neither has any beneficial properties.

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Postby daPyr0x » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:09 pm

jota: somehow your response was....well, exactly how I would've expected you to respond. Sound theory, less than effective application; if only due to the easily and readily available forms of alcohol, inhalants, and other "mind-altering substances" that are available for children to purchase at your local Wal-mart. I gotta be honest with you, as someone who's done all kinds of things that wouldn't be recommended while under the influence of marijuana, I'm pretty curious exactly how I'm a danger to society. I could argue about driving, but I won't - because that'll end in a pissing match - but walking down the street smoking a joint I am dangerous....how exactly?

Satya: Thanks for the backup; though my understanding of the institution of marijuana prohibition laws is that it was the pharmaceutical companies of the time who wanted instead to market the very patentable Tylenol as opposed to the unpatentable cannabis. They lobbied the government, who instituted the "Drug Czar" position, whose job it was to fill the country with racially-slanted propaganda that linked marijuana use with immigrants (who we all know American's hated back then...hypocrites) saying things like "The mexicans call it crazy weed, 'cause it makes them crazy." What I find perhaps more entertaining is the fact that prior to this bill (during WWI, iirc) it was against the law for farmers not to grow the cannabis plant due to it's non-psychoactive uses.
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Postby jotabe » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:50 pm

Well, i am glad i fulfil the expectations people have lain on me :wink: that means that the effort hadn't gone to waste.

How are you a danger to others when under the influence of mind-altering substances? Well, that's obvious: if your mind state is altered, you aren't in full possession of your faculties. You might feel inhibited to do things you wouldn't otherwise, including dangerous recklesness and violence (against others, against property, against yourself). And when something is possible, it will happen, eventually, so we have to make previsions for it.

Of course, it would be fairly impractical to have policemen patrolling the city testing people to see if they are the influence or not. What i suggest is simply adding it to other offences: If you find people vandalizing property, or hollering in the middle of the night (it would be a finable offence in Spain: we have laws against acustic contamination, so people can sleep during the night) or being antisocial in any other criminal way, they should be checked for substance consumption, and that would increase their punishment (i find laughable that if you are under the influence of drugs, your punishment for crimes gets actually cut down, instead of increased).

Obviously if you are responsible enough to conduct yourself even under the influence of drugs, nothing should be done to you.

Edit: i promise not to bring it up again even if you reply, but... do you really believe that driving after having drunk is acceptable?
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Postby daPyr0x » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:39 pm

Perhaps where the difficulty in how you understand what I'm saying is how you interpret the effects of different substances. Alcohol, despite being in actuality a depressant, decreases inhibitions and encourages loud, reckless, and sometimes violent behavior in people. Marijuana, on the other hand, encourages a calm, relaxed state, similar to a hospitally-induced codeine high, except without quite that level of painkilling. My point? The likelihood of the issues you describe arising as a result of marijuana use alone is lower than you infer.

And of course, doing stupid, careless, or dangerous things while under the influence of anything - whether it's that medical codeine high or booze or anything else - should get worse punishment. I don't think anywhere anyone suggested otherwise.

So after all that you're saying you agree with me? That if you're responsible enough to handle yourself under the influence there should be nothing wrong with inducing said influences? Purchasing substances to induce said influences? Funny roundabout there.

No, I do not think driving drunk is acceptable. I also do not group driving under the influence of marijuana into the same category as driving under the influence of alcohol. The reason for that is simple; as I described above, the effects of marijuana on the body and mind are very different from the effects of alcohol. I would actually go so far as to say that if more of the drivers on the road were high we'd probably have fewer accidents overall. That's pure speculation that I'm likely to get flamed for, but I stand by it. Drivers under the influence of pot, while their reaction times are slower than that of a sober individual, also have a tendency to drive slower, be more aware of their surroundings, and maneuver far more carefully. It's almost as though the mind rambles "okay, I know I'm high, so I gotta focus, watch for cops, don't do anything to make me look like I'm high, can't get pulled over, cops will know..." out of marijuana-induced paranoia and keeps you on your toes.

Driving under the influence of alcohol is very different. Whereas pot's reminding you you're high and all the dangers, alcohol you're convinced you're not drunk; or just a little drunk, but not too drunk to drive. Your inhibitions are removed so you don't think twice about doing your favorite Ricky Bobby impression flying up the freeway at 150. Even if you're the super cautious type, immune to that urge, you're focusing on the lines in the road because you have to - somehow they keep ending up under your car. Your equilibrium is off and you're out of balance. Driving drunk is an absolutely idiotic thing to do.

[I realize I may give the impression that I have driven drunk in my lifetime; I have not. I'm merely applying how I react to drinking to driving ]
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Postby Gravity Defier » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:57 pm

Marijuana, on the other hand, encourages a calm, relaxed state, similar to a hospitally-induced codeine high
I do not want anyone on any sort of high, especially one that puts them into such a relaxed state of mind, driving on the same roads I walk/bike/drive along/on.

Defensive driving, which is truly what all drivers should do, requires being alert. Every person I've known who has used marijuana (and I've known a lot of them, two of whom have gotten into accidents while high) has been too slow, too relaxed to be reliable drivers. Of course, that is anecdotal but so is your experience.

While I appreciate your speaking as someone who has driven while under the influence, I hardly think you can be objective enough to claim you were driving well or better than a sober person.



All that to say, stay at home and smoke or do it recreationally (and get a sober driver) for all I care. Just stay away from me, which includes any street I may or may not be on.
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Postby jotabe » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:53 pm

^ What she said.

I specifically tried not to make difference among drugs (including alcohol) because i am bound to be wrong about the effects, so i just said drugs. I just have a shallow knowledge on the list of effects the most popular ones have. But if you want me to say it, yes, i agree that cannabinoids are much milder than most drugs, including alcohol. Personally, i have experience talking to drunks and to people high from cannabinoids, and potheads are much more agreeable. I still rather talk to them when sober.

What i doubt is the capability of anyone to be responsible while under the influence of drugs. And marijuana isn't the only drug out there.
I don't object at all to buying those substances, nor to private consumption of them. Just don't do it anywhere near i can get hurt (Alea, i think you travelled forward in time to copy what i was going to write :lol: now i have to rewrite it lol)
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Postby zeroguy » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:28 pm

[I realize I may give the impression that I have driven drunk in my lifetime; I have not. I'm merely applying how I react to drinking to driving ]
Sharing anecdotes to try to argue about this is dumb. But I wanna share anyway! I ride as a passenger in a car driven by a high person quite often, and regularly. (When I would be fit and able to drive.) The only times I've really seen that person do anything dangerous while driving was while he was sober (slowly ran a stop sign, ran a red light that I alerted him to right before he did it), though distracted. I feel pretty much as safe riding with him when he's on cannabis as I do anyone (well, actually, there's a couple of people I know that I feel less safe riding with but...)

Perhaps less anecdotally: I seem to be hearing the notion of "drugs and driving is bad", which is a bit.... well, broad. Sure, "alcohol" falls under that, but so does nicotine, caffeine, aspirin...
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Postby neo-dragon » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:44 pm

At the very least doesn't marijuana act as a sedative, which is by definition going to slow reaction times and overall alertness? Obviously the effects are different for everyone and may be negligible some, but if even one in ten people suffer impairment to driving ability while high I wouldn't count on that group to self identify. Better to say that no one should drive while high.
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Postby daPyr0x » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:32 am

Despite a severe lack of evidence whatsoever, it's safe to say that yes, marijuana slows reaction times. I don't question this. I also wouldn't say that people under the influence are better drivers. What I do say, and stand by, is that drivers under the influence of marijuana are more likely to err on the side of caution. I would also say that in the congested cities I've been around for most of my life, encouraging drivers to err on the side of caution would be an improvement over the aggressive tactics that are so prevalent they're required to stay alive.

I'm not going to suggest that I have an opinion regarding the legalities of driving while under the influence of marijuana. Personally, I think a lot more study needs to be done before coming to any conclusion about that. The physical manifestations of the drug lean towards the obvious slowed reaction time leading us to say that driving high is bad and dangerous, however there has not been any work done to take in to account the change in driver attitude with regards to road safety. If driving while high makes you slow and careful, are you slowed enough to counteract your delayed reactions? Or, as I tend to do, are you careful enough to take proactive steps to ensure not needing to make quick decisions (positioning your vehicle with lots of space around, keeping tabs on off-road areas for anything coming into my path)?

All I'm saying is that if you wanted to have an adequate comparison of safety between a sober driver and one who is under the influence of marijuana, you have to take in to account both the slowed reaction times and the change in thought processes, and the only way I think that kind of testing could be done properly is by sitting drivers in simulations over and over again and see how they respond.

Anecdotally speaking: Most people (which is to say all people with whom I don't spend a lot of time, or don't know of my habits), including police officers, are not able to discern whether or not I am under the influence, and are usually very surprised to find out when I am. My point? Maybe I'm just too relaxed of a guy to be safe on the roads :p Perhaps we should try the opposite, pump drivers full of Focusyn. Then they're bound to be the best, quickest, most attentive drivers on the road, right?
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Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:56 am

Honestly, I just want to move away from a car-centric system. I trust very few people (including the sober who are distracted by their phones, their passengers, their exhaustion, their domestic and/or social problems, their music that shakes my vehicle the next lane over, their OTC allergy medicine that causes drowsiness) to be good drivers and it's exactly because everyone makes excuses for themselves and thinks they have an/the advantage that makes them the best, or even just really good, drivers out there that I trust everyone so little. Marijuana use is just another excuse to me. Please don't drive near me or my loved ones, thanks.
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Postby Satya » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:25 am

http://mobile.latimes.com/inf/infomo?vi ... i=52918264
An initiative to legalize marijuana and allow it to be sold and taxed will appear on the November ballot, state election officials announced Wednesday, triggering what will probably be a much-watched campaign that once again puts California on the forefront of the nation's debate over whether to soften drug laws.


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