Dear Diary/Journal/Bob 3.0

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!
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Luet
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Postby Luet » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:13 am

Wow. That is beautiful and cool and geeky and wow (since this post went to a new page, see the link on the previous page).

On an unrelated note...

Bob,
I have discovered that reading a self-help book and abuse and trauma immediately before attempting to go to bed is a very, very bad idea. Seems like I should have known that...but somehow I didn't.
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

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Postby Syphon the Sun » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:08 pm

I've been in Illinois for over a year now, and I still get everything confused.
I guess I missed the memo about getting another Illinoisan (prounounced: El-En-Oy-An, for all of you folk out there who can't properly pronounce it. The S is silent, bitches.) Welcome to the state, man. I'm going to assume you're in the Chicago metro area?

MIDWEST PWEBCON in Chicago next summer!

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Postby starlooker » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:14 pm

Dear Bob,

The only bad thing about tea is the way it gets cold so much faster than I drink it.

It has been a long, hard, arduous, emotionally draining, tearful day.

I hate my boss.

I hate being thought of as unyielding.

Me
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

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Postby Olhado_ » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:03 pm

Bob,

Why do I always have to act like an arrogant, jerk, when I am around people.

I swear sometimes I think I will be better off if I just locked myself in my house and never saw another person again. I don't know if it is possiblt to just be (pardon the non-PC word) a social-retard; but something I think I may be.

Also, sorry everyone who finds offense with the words I used above. Itis just something I constantly think to myself and it is the first time I put it in witting.

Thanks Bob, for listening. Now it is off to watch some Scrubs, which always seems to cheer me up.

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Postby Gravity Defier » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:39 pm

What the hell is in most of the midwest? Nothing. (Except Chicago.)
Amen to that. And what an awesome exception at that.


MIDWEST PWEBCON in Chicago next summer!
You know, I am looking for the smallest excuse possible to get me back there. Make it in mid-July or around that time, and I'm there.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

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Postby Wind Swept » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:39 pm

Hello Robert,

I suppose I owe you an update on life.

It's strange. I've finally found a good friend in Moorhead, and somehow, I feel more lonely now than I did before. It took me two years to find someone who will laugh at my jokes without explanation. Unfortunately, she is a physics major, planning to be the first to graduate the program in four years, so we hardly ever see each other. Hence the being more lonely. You can't miss what you never had.

At this point, I feel I should make it perfectly clear that this is a purely platonic relationship. Consider the point made.

I am probably the world's worst student. I wish there was an award for that... All the same, I'm almost certain I'll be graduating - eventually - with a GCOM major and a Writing minor. I've been exploring options in East Asian Studies and English this semester, not taking any GCOM classes. I've decided I don't want to learn Japanese or Chinese as much as I thought I did, nor do I have any love for Literature classes. Hence the Writing minor. Literature classes were unavoidable even with a Writing major.

I've been doing quite a bit of writing lately, what with a Creative Writing class and all, and it's proving to be a most enjoyable experience. My dreams of writing the best selling book ever right after college and enjoying an obscenely early retirement are seeming less and less far off.

I drank for the second time in my life the other night. Just a few glasses of wine, which was exactly how it went the first time I ever drank. I haven't slept that comfortably in a long time.

I had the most peculiar experience when my Tanzania group went camping at the beginning of August. Sarah, Isaac and I were playing Trivial Pursuit, and Isaac received a question, the answer to which was a Bingo number. He said something like, "87," so Sarah and I both quickly broke into explaining to him that he needed a letter and a number. Talking over each other as we were, we hit the point where we were going to give him an example at the exact same time, and we both ended up saying, premeditatedly, "N-36."

It's still bothering me three months later.

I've finally come to terms with my lack of religion. I claimed to be an agnostic for quite some time, because it appeared to me that outright saying, "There is no God," was embracing death as the end. It finally occurred to me that, just because I don't believe in a god, it doesn't mean I have to believe that death is the end. Instead, I'm finally able to accept that haven't a clue what comes next, and I'm happy with that. Liberating.

I've decided I'm incredibly sad about the apparent emptiness of our universe. I will be highly disappointed if we can't find someone new out there to talk to in my lifetime.

I'm always happened when something during my day actually manages to surprise me. It's unfortunate it doesn't happen more often.

I really want to switch to a Physics or Chemistry major, but I can't bear to stay in school for that much longer. I keep telling myself, "Maybe later."

I'm tired of all the music I've ever listened to. I've been dying to hear something mind numbingly new.

I think that's enough randomness.

Later, Bob.
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Postby zeroguy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:42 pm

Illinoisan (prounounced: El-En-Oy-An, for all of you folk out there who can't properly pronounce it. The S is silent, bitches.)
It's not Il-En-Oy-An? (I wish I knew IPA phonetic symbols.) Then again, that would be consistent with some other weird pronunciation around here, like "melk".
I'm going to assume you're in the Chicago metro area?
I will neither confirm nor deny. I tend not to say a lot of personal information about myself around here; nothing personal.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:14 am

Zero, natives tend to pronounce it with the "el" sound, over the "ill" sound. There is a pretty big portion of people who have moved here from somewhere else who do it in reverse, of course. But even the wankers in Chicago tend to pronounce it with the "el." *shrugs*

As far as not wanting to give out any personal details, no worries. Completely understandable. I'm just shocked that I'm not the only Illinoisan member, anymore.

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Postby VelvetElvis » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:11 pm

Dear Bob,

I am not mean. I am not a mean person. I can't stand it when smeone says that I am, even as a passing joke.

-me
Yay, I'm a llama again!

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Postby Luet » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:13 pm

Well, Bob, I think I need you pretty badly right now. Reading these self-help books is helpful in some ways but also invalidating in others. The problem is that what I went through does not fit into any of the typical categories. It was obviously not child abuse. It was not rape. There was no actual physical violence at all. The only thing that I know for sure is that there was severe emotional abuse and boundary crossing and an inappropriate physical relationship. With a family member who I believe has borderline personality disorder. And it went on for a year and a half.

The only person, other than my therapist, who I ever told all of the sordid details to was my best friend at the time. She ended up believing his version of events and abandoning me. All the people that I still have as a support system know the general idea of what happened but don't really know. They don't know the things that give me nightmares and flashbacks and make me nauseous at the thought of being touched. And I wish they knew. I wish everyone knew everything. Because I feel like they don't really, truly believe that something devastating happened to me. They don't understand why I'm not over this. But I also don't wish it on them, to have these mental pictures in there memories forever. Not out of pride for myself, there is not much of that left...but just because no one should have to know such things about their wife, sister, daughter, friend.

And the other thing that I struggle with constantly is, of course, the guilt of letting it happen. I wasn't physically forced. I was emotionally coerced. I was guilted into it. Things were sexual from the very beginning but when I tried to complain/discuss the problems, he told me I was accusing him of being a pervert, a monster. How could I think such things of him? He would never do such things to me, I was like his sister. Except he did. Constantly. He made me doubt and disbelieve everything that I previously knew to be true and reasonable and constant.

No, he didn't force me. But he made me believe that my wishes didn't matter because whatever they were they would be disregarded. My only way out was to not be part of his life and at the time, that felt impossible. So, I kept going back and pleading for it to stop. And he would agree wholeheartedly, promise things would be different. And then the next day act as if I had never spoken. And the whole time he made me believe that I was the irrational, demanding, crazy one. And I believed him. I lost my mind and my soul.

I have found my way back but I just don't know if I will ever be whole again.
Last edited by Luet on Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:31 pm

Bob,
I became that person in a meeting today. I didn't want to become that person at school, ever, for any reason. The best excuse I can think up is I'm down-to-the-bones tired. Only, that's ridiculous and not an excuse at all. And now I'm a little bit embarrassed, where a little bit = a whole hell of a lot.

Good thing is, my coworkers are really kind, gave me the thumbs up and the pat on the back, and moved on as if I hadn't just said/done/acted anything like that.

Idiot.


(On the inside, I'm giddy as all get out, though. I'm having fun and expect the tired to go away when I die. :))
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

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Postby zeroguy » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:43 am

The best excuse I can think up is I'm down-to-the-bones tired. Only, that's ridiculous and not an excuse at all.
Hey, that was the excuse I was using with myself for a few stupid things I've done today. It's perfectly valid excuse for practically any behaviour depending on the level of tiredness. (In my case due to mild sleep deprivation.)
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Postby Gravity Defier » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:49 pm

I am so glad you said that (because I'll take any excuse I can) but also a little disappointed (because I'm usually too quick to take any excuse I can).

I'm getting about 6 hours of sleep these days and none of it is restful; I wake up 3-4 times every night, minimum, and I have ridiculously weird/bad dreams almost every night.

5:50am-5:30pm is spent getting ready for/bein at work every day of the work week, with 1.5 hours of that being soccer practice, in which I run around with the kids.

The rest of my day, at home, is spent either staring at a wall/tv/computer screen if I'm being bad (and my brain is fried) or I'm doing lessons for the next day if I'm being good. There are also the days where I have to babysit any combination of my nieces after work, or drive people around.

Weekends are for yardwork (that is therapuetic but also very physically draining) or housework (that sucks the soul out of me).

I usually go out ~3 times a week with friends if we have time (teachers and waitresses = schedule conflicts).

Basically, I'm busy when I'm in school which means I'm exhausted always.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd say it's closer to 10 on that level of tiredness.

Pretend that was me explaining to Bob or something. I'm usually not a fan of too much conversation in this thread. Has to do with being yelled at by moldy oldies when I was new; something about this not being a chat room? :P
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

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Postby Dr. Mobius » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:28 pm

Meh, my replies outnumber my "bob" posts by around 100 to 1.
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Postby shadow-petra » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:31 pm

Bob,

I was forced to give up volleyball to head yearbook. Hold on, I was obligated to head yearbook, and at that point, was forced to give up volleyball. I miss it.

My staff can't do anything for their lives, they won't let me help them work because they don't come to work. Superlatives are illegally being taken away for the wrong reasons, I am now probably on the principal's bad side. If the school's attorney is an idiot and advises him to fight, there will be a lawsuit.

I gave up my love for this?

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Postby Olhado_ » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:13 pm

Weekends are for yardwork (that is therapuetic but also very physically draining) or housework (that sucks the soul out of me).
At the risk of getting yelled at, for being too "chatty" (although I point to the Midwest debate above :P), I cannot say anything about yardwork, except it is a good thing you find it therapeutic; but with the house work I would recommend getting a Roomba, mine is such a time saver. I can clean two things at once. Although my place still always looks like a hurricane has wiped through it, then again I am in Florida, so perhaps one has. :D


Anyways, Bob perhaps it was because of you or perhaps it is because I am finally have a challenging project for a while that I am really getting into (since it does not sound interesting :P); but I really had a good day today. I did not feel I acted too much like a jack*** or a "social retard" or anything like that. I actually feel good, even if I have to stay up all night finishing a report because I was too depressed to do much ot it before. I feel like life is do-able right now. 8)

Thanks a lot Bob.

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Postby zeroguy » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:23 am

Dang chatty newbs... :stonedkermit:
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Postby daPyr0x » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:49 am

Bob,

Today is the day that I remember.

My home is a place of darkness. My surroundings are all the same, offering quick flashes of light in an otherwise dark world. Each flash I see I chase, unsure of what it is or where it came from, knowing only that it offers something different than what I know of as home. I see one flash, out of the corner of my eye. I turn to face it, hoping to catch a glimpse of its cause, and I see another flash close by.

Closer I go, keeping my eyes trained on where I thought I saw the flash, and suddenly I see it again to my right. Quickly I turn and follow. The flash is moving. There is a quick flicker nearby and I chase just in time for another to its side. As the territory grows less and less familiar, I am unphased. The flicker is my guide now, and my curiosity knows no bounds.

I continue to follow, becoming more aware of my changing surroundings. I'm seeing things I've never seen before, places I've never been. My eyes grow wider despite my pursuit of the illusive flicker. Soon it is lost. Somewhere as I scanned my area I lost sight of the flash, and I begin travelling in circles unsure of where to go. That's when I felt it.

the pull didn't start right away, but when it did, I knew it. Its firm, yet gentle grip guided me through more new places. As the light grew, so did my enchantment. Everything was so bright. There were no more flickers, no more flashes. The world was too bright for them. Suddenly I was in a different place, one full of colour.

The pull wasn't consistent. Sometimes it would pull fast, and I could not keep up. Sometimes it would slow down to a nice comfortable place. And sometimes it would stop entirely, offering me a chance to explore the worlds it had brought me to. Yet I always knew it was there, like it had become a part of me.

As time went on, it just kept getting brighter. I thought I had seen the most vibrant thing my body would allow, only to soon be impressed all over again.

Finally, I saw what I now know of as the top. I knew this place, I had heard of it all my life. It's a scary, mysterious place for me; filled with childhood rumours of what's there. Every story I'd ever heard said they never made it back. Once you had past the top, there was no going home.

It was beautiful. There was so much light all around me. Everything shimmered. Even that which was below me glistened with mystery and intrigue. I remember it so vividly, as vivid as the colours that surrounded me. I couldn't explore this place long, though, as the pull kept me moving in a very definite direction. Up.

I got closer and closer to the surface as fear and nervousness began to overtake my awe and excitement. It gets closer, and the once colourful and vibrant surroundings are nonexistent. All I see is light. Suddenly I hit it. I brace myself as though I were about to hit a wall. I know what's coming, just not what to expect of it. I close my eyes, and I'm hit like a ton of bricks.

I can't breathe.

I'm scared. I don't know what happened. All I know is I hit the top and now I can't breathe. The pull has gotten stronger now. It's hurting me. I flounder around only to realize it's not doing much for me, and soon my fear subsides and I open my eyes.

It's more magnificent than I could've ever imagined. All around me. I try to move, I want to see more. I am in complete and utter awe. I don't know where I am, how I got there, or where I'm headed; all I know is I broke through the top and it is the most gorgeous thing I've ever seen.

Suddenly something comes up beside me. It glistens beside me in the brightest shade of orange, a colour I had only learned of on this journey. I examine this orange thing to try and see what it is, and how it got there; and I realize that it is like me.

As I begin to run out of breath as I try to figure out what is going on. As much as my awe has mesmerized me, it is apparent that I need to figure out where I am; And soon after I realize that I'm hooked, that I'm hanging there off of some kind of line, its cut.

I hit the top again, from the other side. I can breathe again, but the intake of much needed oxygen only does more to confuse me. I am dizzy, and once again blinded. All I see is the top above me, and the darkness below me. I try to get past the top again, but the pull is gone, and I haven't the strength to break through on my own. I splash as I desperately attempt to go back to that place, yet with every attempt to get up I only tire and fall lower. As the light dims, I see more of this orange around me, only it doesn't glisten the same way.

And as my travel takes me deeper I realize that I am a lagoon fish in a sea of koi. Their colour is matched only by their size, and their magnificence mystifies me. This is not the place for me.

I begin my journey home, defeated. I'm forced to accept that I cannot see past the top on my own, and in the ever-growing darkness that surrounds me I feel comfort.

I am home.

And today is the day I remember when I saw past the top. The most gorgeous, magnificent world that is above.

I still have the hook. I can't say if the wound has healed or not, but as I went in my ascent it became more than just a pull. It was embedded into my soul as the hook is in my skin. It will serve as a constant reminder of the magnificence I have once seen, as I continue to chase flickers, hoping I might find another one to take me to that place, and this time keep me there. Perhaps one day the sparkle of orange will be no match to the vibrance of my own scales, but until then I continue to chase.
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Postby Olhado_ » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:14 pm

Dear Bob,

The next time someone comments on the "slowness" of the USPS system I might just have to scream. I know for a fact that the USPS can deliver a letter from Central Florida to California in about 4 days.

I know this because a letter I sent left the mail box Monday afternoon (since the USPS does not pickup Sunday) and made it to its destination Wednesday afternoon.

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Postby starlooker » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:52 am

Dear Bob,

Well, I've started taking straterra today. It was easier than I expected to get the drug. It was actually really kind of humorous. The thing is, I really did not want to start out by taking a stimulant (e.g., Ritalin) becuase I have anxiety issues and those don't work well. Also, doctors are much more willing to prescribe non-amphetamines without having you undergo testing first.

Nonetheless, I wasn't quite prepared for this.

It was actually really funny. The nurse made a big fuss about the federal regulations around it, and about how the drugs are amphetamines, and I was like, "Well, I'd need to see a doctor for a referral for testing, anyways, for my insurance to cover it, a lot of the tests are invalid for me since I do this sort of testing, and, anyways, aren't there new, non-stimulent drugs that I could maybe get?" So, she finally went and got the doctor.

Oh my gosh. Easiest thing in the world. He was like, "I can give you the new drugs now. You probably know more about it than me. If it doesn't work, come back and see me and we'll arrange for a referral. I think that's a reasonable course of action." He told me a few random facts about the drug.

And, as I was standing up, purse in hand, he literally said, "Oh, yeah, by the way, what are your symptoms? Just to make it official?"

I did not think it would be nearly that easy. So, I'm thinking almost having a Ph.D. in psychology has its perks.

God, I hope the drug works. I'm going to be really, really disappointed if it doesn't. It takes 2 weeks to a month to kick in.
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

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Postby Rei » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:30 pm

Bob,

my brain is breaking
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.
~Blaise Pascal


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Postby Rei » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:08 pm

Dear Bob,

I found out last night that I do comparatively better at Latin scrabble than I do at English scrabble. There is something very wrong with this picture, and yet, at the same time, so very, very right.

~Rei
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Postby Gravity Defier » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:33 pm

Bob,

In an attempt to get me to let them dance the way they wanted, a few young men started grinding against me as I walked through the crowd separating horny little couples.

This would be the downside to chaperoning dances.

The upside is getting to laugh at how dumb they all look doing the YMCA or any other dance of that nature.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

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Postby daPyr0x » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:33 pm

So, Bob, Saturday afternoon I get a phone call. "Cameron, come to the hospital"

Uh oh... I immediately think the worst because my step mom won't elaborate, so I cancel my plans and I get in the car within 5 minutes.

I get there, and he's all but comatose. Trying so desperately to communicate something to us but unable to form the words. My grandmother needs her eyedrops (she had eye surgery last week) so she needs to be driven home, and my brother and I do so.

And within 20 minutes of us leaving, he had passed.

I'm glad he passed shortly after we left like that. My brother can't feel like he should've still been there, nor did he have to witness his death.

I can't describe, much less remotely understand, what it is I feel about all this. Being that I've always been so detached from my father, only seeing him once or twice a month; everything that's happened since March has kindof been a slow burn rather than anything immediate.

I worry, though, that I'm taking it "too well." I laugh, make jokes, wrestle with my brother... I'm not really "grieving" in the typical sense, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Really, though, I'm hardly my main concern right now.

I just hope my little brother pulls through this okay.

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Postby zeroguy » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:54 pm

Dear Bob,

Holly freaking carp. This has been one of the best days for me, webcomics-wise; probably because I forgot to check them yesterday, and the awesome just builds up quickly. Fischbach looks like he's finally going to (at least partially) resolve some plot points that have needed resolving for years... Caz updated for the first time in how many months? ... Dresden Codak has essentially started his long road to poverty ... and of course, we are given more evidence that Tracy Butler is amazing.

The only thing that could make this better is if Winter updated. *checks* ... dammit, Lem. Oh well, I'm still happy as hell. Getting my reading done for class tomorrow will be difficult...

[Edit: And Tailsteak updated the next day, too! What is all this?]

-me
Last edited by zeroguy on Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Claire
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Postby Claire » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:23 pm

Dear Bob,

I am having school issues.

It starts with golf. I don't want to quit, and I don't want to play anymore. I love the girls. I love feeling part of something. I am needed, not for my score but because they need a certain amount of people playing and if I don't continue that will be one less person they'll have. But it takes up so much time. I can't sign up for classes after 2:30. So many classes I want to take next semester are evening classes but they're automatically nixed off of my list. This is affecting my major choices.

I thought I was going to be a double major: International Area Studies and Philosophy-Neuroscience-Psychology. I had it all planned out. But now I'm getting bad grades in my PNP classes and I'm second guessing myself. I switched it to a PNP minor. Now I'm not even sure if I want to continue with it at all. I only need two more classes for a PNP minor but I may not be able to take any next semester because of golf and IAS requirements. IAS requirements are another issue. I need to take at least three >400 level classes. Guess when they're all offered...evenings. The only two that fit into my schedule that look remotely interestiing are Terrorism and the Clash of Civilizations, and Caribbean Literature. I don't want to take the terrorism course but it doesn't look like I have a choice. So that takes away my Tuesday/Thursday so any Psych or PNP or fun classes have to be MWF.

But then studying abroad is an issue. I KNOW I want to study abroad. I don't know where or when. The IAS study abroad options are so few and that is really annoying. With the ones that there ARE I would have to do my own research. I don't WANT to do my own research. I just wanted to assimilate and have a fun semester. So then, I thought, I'll go abroad for PNP. But wait, I don't like PNP anymore. So maybe I'll do the double major in Psych. But that is starting another major so late and I'm nervous about it and I need to take Psych Stats and Experimental Psych next semester in that case and that stresses me out because I had wanted to take Abnormal Psych and the good professor for Psych Stat is teaching durinig golf and I haven't even looked at when Experimental is offered. I hate this. I want someone to make my decisions for me. So here are the options:

-Change to PNP major to Psych major. Suffer through bad professor for Psych Statistics and don't take Abnormal Psych until next year. Then study abroad in the UK or Australia.
-Declare an Arabic minor. Study abroad in Egypt even though I'm scared of the Middle East.
-just go abroad for IAS and suck it up and do my own research. But then I get the option of studying abroad in all the cool places like South Africa or Kenya or the Czech Republic or Morocco.
-Study abroad in the UK for PNP and work really hard to get a B in Cognitive Science this semester.
-Quit golf (not really an option)
-Don't study abroad, or study abroad in the summer (not really an option)

Thanks for listening, Bob. I'm a stress case.

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Postby v-girl » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:09 pm

I just said goodbye to one of my best friends for a whole year. I'll be a second year when she gets back. So much could change in a year. I'm sure she'll have changed a lot.

I didn't cry when I said goodbye to her, but when I saw her hug her mom and share some intimate moments, I broke down. And, I always cry more AFTER I leave or people leave anyway. But I'm so glad I got the chance to tell her I love her and that I'm going to miss her right before she left. I'm glad I was able to support her and be one of the last people she saw.

And now I have to study... heh, I'm sure that will work well.

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Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:19 pm

Bob,
Over my two week intersession, I didn't miss my students. Not really at all. I thought of them only as part of school, which I didn't want to return to and was only glad about returning to after I was back.

I will be on campus Friday but not in my room, so a sub will be there.

I miss them already.

And I won't get to see them until next Tuesday.







What the hell is wrong with me? This is no big deal.

Also, I find it mildly depressing that all I ever talk about with just about everyone is school and all things related to it. *sigh*
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

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Postby Wil » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:50 am

I’ve been thinking a lot about manipulation, Mr. Bob, and it really strikes me as odd about how so many people seem so taken aback by the thought of it when really we all do it all day long. Just a simple question, or a simple comment, manipulates people. Asking a person at a store to help you find something is manipulation in its simplest form – your entire purpose for talking to them is to obtain something from them. Testing someone happens all day long as you ask people questions. Comments manipulate people as then they have to process and think about what you have said. So, when you think about it, when someone tells someone else that they are manipulative they are being very nonsensical.

The only things that can be judged are the intentions and consequences, not the means. It is only immoral when the manipulation crosses bounds where as your intentions are hurtful or the consequences are negative. Even still, who is unbiased enough to judge the consequences as being negative? Is one able to judge the consequences upon themselves or those they are manipulating without being unbiased? Logically this should be a no.

Flirting is simply a form of flattery in manipulation. Your intentions can possibly be less than pure but in the end the result that is being sought out is some form of action of the opposite party. Beyond this, are there not other forms of attracting the attention of someone else that can be flattery in the form of manipulation? Simply asking a favor of someone can be not only a way to test their willingness but also the reactions that they give off which can then be used as a way to measure their interest. In many ways, as flirting is so prevalent in today’s society, those who are manipulating others in a form of flattery that is not flirting in its direct form appear to be more desirable.

If the intentions are positive but the results are not, is this crossing over moral boundaries? Not exactly, as one can not always know what the results may be. It only becomes immoral when the results are apparently negative but one continues to manipulate another. People only begin to feel violated and “manipulated” when they consciously realize that they are being manipulated in an unfamiliar way, but this does not imply that they are being manipulated in a negative way.

What got me to thinking about this, Bob, was as I sat in my math class this afternoon. There is quite an attractive woman who sits directly in front of me whom is always being hit on by the guys around her. It occurred to me that not only are the guys manipulating her, but she is in turn manipulating them. It’s not even a conscious interaction, but something which is just naturally picked up by most people that they unconsciously do day in and day out.

We are constantly being manipulated and manipulating people back and forth all day every day. There is rarely a time when one is not manipulating another human being in some way or another. What some may see as being immoral, such as the interaction between a girlfriend and another guy, others may see as simply being a part of the daily grind. We are our own worst enemy in determining what is immoral, and in turn we are incapable of understanding in what ways people manipulate us. If one is used to being manipulated in a negative way then one only feels manipulated when the manipulation goes against what they are most familiar with. Flirting is a simple interaction but as it is so common it is often times the less visible manipulations that draw us to others. Intended or not, it is those manipulations that we consciously see that are the most attractive and the most emotionally provoking of the lot.


P.S. Bob: I've finished the first two Harry Potter books and I have to say there is a LOT more in the books than there are in the movies. I laughed quite loudly when I read the chocolate frog card collection where Ron was missing Agrippa and Ptolemy. This may have been in the movie and I do not recall it, but now that I am familiar with both of those famous (or perhaps sometimes not so famous) people I just had to laugh. Also, as I am taking astronomy, it seems quite dumb for students at Hogwarts to be required to remember all the moons of any of the Jovian planets as there are an unknown amount and all of them have a couple dozen as it is.
Last edited by Wil on Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Rei » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:50 am

Bob,

I just found a programme that is meant to help you learn Middle Welsh. It opens thus: "When was the last time you were at a party, and some loudmouth came up and said, 'You're supposed to be so smart... say something in Middle Welsh!' and you were left there with egg all over your face? Well, that need never happen to you again! Work your way through this simple program and you'll be able to stop such bullies dead in their tracks."

Then it has you memorise a line in Middle Welsh and type it back. The first line is "Pwyll, Pendeuic Dyuet, a oed yn arglwyd ar seith cantref Dyuet." It's the opening line to Pwyll Pendeuic Dyuet. And the second sentence is the line following. This amuses me greatly, as I have a copy of Pwyll in Middle Welsh which we are reading in class.

Anyway, it amused me at any rate.

~Rei
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私は。。。誰?

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Postby Yebra » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:46 pm

Dear Bob,

I really feel bad about the companion cube.
Yebra: A cross between a zebra and something that fancied a zebra.

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Postby Petra456 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:02 am

Bob,

Sometimes I really do feel like a loser.

- me
Member since March 16th, 2004.

And there will come a time, you'll see, with no more tears.
And love will not break your heart, but dismiss your fears.
Get over your hill and see what you find there,
With grace in your heart and flowers in your hair.

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Postby Dr. Mobius » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:00 am

Dear Bob,

I really feel bad about the companion cube.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

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Postby zeroguy » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:10 am

Edit: Dammit mobius.

You just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake.
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dgf hhw

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Postby anonshadow » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:26 am

Dear Bob,

Lately, it seems that my ridiculousness has no bounds. First I decide to double major in biophysics and psych. (Which is obviously insane.) Then I decide that I might add philosophy as a third major, and also that writing a paper contrasting Stoicism and Eugenics is a perfectly acceptable topic for a disabilities class.

It's not that it isn't.

It's that I'm kind of ridiculous for having thought of it.




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