Can you guys help with a dilema?

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Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:59 am

Okay. I haven't known you guys for all that long, since March I think. Maybe that's what makes it easier, but anyways... here it is.
I'm bi, but don't know how to tell my mother. She'll probably tell me that I'm "growing up" and "confused with raging hormones" and "everyone your age goes through this phase". Thing is, it doesn't feel like that. As far as I can tell, it's not a phase and no one else seems to be going through it so how do I convince her it's for real? I also want to avoid a lecture concerning how it affects my Christianity. It seems tricky, can you guys help me? Any advice at all'd be nice.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby starlooker » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:11 am

First off, I'd say be sure to pick your moment. A time that's unhurried and when she's in a good mood and not under any extra stress. Maybe when the two of you are doing something together? (Cooking, walking the dog, whatever.) Don't treat it like you're telling her you have cancer or something - no big preamble that will make it sound like bad news when it really isn't. Be matter of fact.

Also be ready for questions about relationships, what it means that you're bisexual, etc.

Maybe, also, tell her in a loving way WHY you're telling her, "Because I trust you," "because I love you and want to be honest with you," etc. You don't have to tell her, but you obviously WANT to - even though you suspect it may be difficult. So, I'm guessing you're telling her because she's important to you, and you can tell her that.

I don't know if you can avoid the topic of religion altogether. Maybe have a simple statement ready about how you're dealing with that?

You're still her daughter, you're still the same person she's always known.

If you have anyone else in your life who knows and is supportive and can be affirming, plan to talk to them afterwards, maybe? So you'll have someone to encourage you even if she doesn't.

If she doesn't take you seriously right away or react well, don't lose all hope. She may need time to adjust. Don't make yourself crazy trying to convince her all in one conversation if she's clearly not going to listen. If you're consistently honest about yourself with her, time and life may convince her.

I hope this is helpful in some way! Best of luck!
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby elfprince13 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:13 am

Okay. I haven't known you guys for all that long, since March I think. Maybe that's what makes it easier, but anyways... here it is.
I'm bi, but don't know how to tell my mother. She'll probably tell me that I'm "growing up" and "confused with raging hormones" and "everyone your age goes through this phase". Thing is, it doesn't feel like that. As far as I can tell, it's not a phase and no one else seems to be going through it so how do I convince her it's for real? I also want to avoid a lecture concerning how it affects my Christianity. It seems tricky, can you guys help me? Any advice at all'd be nice.

Thanks in advance.
It may be helpful to get further educated on some of the discussion concerning the meaning of the original Greek words in the New Testament passages dealing with homosexuality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... _Testament" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I'm not familiar enough with the arguments for and against specific interpretations of those passages to be able to weigh in on the subject, but I can tell you that if you are expecting a lecture, it is probably helpful to be familiar with the source material and sit down with her and go over those passages individually and with reference to some scholarly sources discussing interpretations of the Greek that are helpful to your cause (if you feel that those interpretations are well grounded and legitimate). Of course, being bisexual also means that you are still attracted to the opposite gender, and if the people you end up in a long term relationship with happen to be opposite-gendered (or, based on your beliefs, you make a conscious decision to only pursue romantic relationships with the opposite-gendered people to whom you are attracted), the faith-based aspect of the problem ends up being less problematic.

Starlooker has it right as far as picking your moment is concerned.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Jayelle » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:29 am

Okay. I haven't known you guys for all that long, since March I think. Maybe that's what makes it easier, but anyways... here it is.
I'm bi, but don't know how to tell my mother. She'll probably tell me that I'm "growing up" and "confused with raging hormones" and "everyone your age goes through this phase". Thing is, it doesn't feel like that. As far as I can tell, it's not a phase and no one else seems to be going through it so how do I convince her it's for real? I also want to avoid a lecture concerning how it affects my Christianity. It seems tricky, can you guys help me? Any advice at all'd be nice.

Thanks in advance.
It may be helpful to get further educated on some of the discussion concerning the meaning of the original Greek words in the New Testament passages dealing with homosexuality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... _Testament" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I'm not familiar enough with the arguments for and against specific interpretations of those passages to be able to weigh in on the subject, but I can tell you that if you are expecting a lecture, it is probably helpful to be familiar with the source material and sit down with her and go over those passages individually and with reference to some scholarly sources discussing interpretations of the Greek that are helpful to your cause (if you feel that those interpretations are well grounded and legitimate). Of course, being bisexual also means that you are still attracted to the opposite gender, and if the people you end up in a long term relationship with happen to be opposite-gendered (or, based on your beliefs, you make a conscious decision to only pursue romantic relationships with the opposite-gendered people to whom you are attracted), the faith-based aspect of the problem ends up being less problematic.

Starlooker has it right as far as picking your moment is concerned.
I respectfully disagree with you here, elf. I wouldn't worry at all about trying to argue anyone out of their beliefs about biblical views on sexuality. A coming-out moment is not the time to argue semantics, it's about asking for love. If you get a lecture on Christianity, I suggest nothing but referring to the mandate Christians have to love everyone. Work out semantics of biblical principles in the future ( if you want to know about how I am both a Christian and accepting of LGTB, feel free to PM me, tinyg)

Your mother might react exactly as you've said with comments about a phase and growing up. That's okay. It is not about getting her to react exactly how you want her to, it's about being honest. Your relationship with your mother is lifelong and there is time to heal from wounds of any conversation. Remember she is a full person and think of her personality before telling her - in my experience, it can be so difficult for kids to realize their parents make mistakes and have regrets when it comes to interacting with their children. She will be going through a confusing time in the exact same way you are.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Rei » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:33 pm

I'm definitely with JL here. For myself, I have found it to be very important to know and understand the various arguments concerning theology, but no amount of debating it with my family would be helpful. I know that the thing my own parents are most concerned with is that I still am a practicing Christian (I have no idea where you are with this, but if your parents' primary concern is religious and you ARE still practicing, it may be some consolation to them).
Last edited by Rei on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby elfprince13 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:47 pm

I respectfully disagree with you here, elf. I wouldn't worry at all about trying to argue anyone out of their beliefs about biblical views on sexuality. A coming-out moment is not the time to argue semantics, it's about asking for love. If you get a lecture on Christianity, I suggest nothing but referring to the mandate Christians have to love everyone. Work out semantics of biblical principles in the future ( if you want to know about how I am both a Christian and accepting of LGTB, feel free to PM me, tinyg)
I'm definitely with JL here. For myself, I have found it to be very important to know and understand the various arguments concerning theology, but no amount of debating it with my family would be helpful. I know that the thing my own parents are most concerned with is that I still am a practicing Christian (I have no idea where you are with this, but if your parents primary concern is religious and you ARE still practicing, it may be some consolation to them).
I was suggesting that as much for TG's benefit ("affects my Christianity") as for hers. I too am a Christian, and take the Biblical call to love everyone very seriously. I don't know about TG, but for many people, their faith-identity is among the strongest parts of their identity. Dealing with aspects of your identity that may appear to be in conflict is (or ought to be) an extremely important activity, to avoid living in a state of cognitive or emotional dissonance. Dealing with them for yourself is obviously most important, but dealing with them for the people you care about is important too (and if you're confident in yourself and your answers to the questions this becomes much easier). I find that people lecture you when they expect you not to have thought about an issue in depth. Having an articulate response (particularly preemptively) can at least lead to a state of "we can agree to disagree on this for now" rather than unhealthfully avoiding an issue that is important to the people close to you. Arguments don't have to be change someone's mind - sometimes acknowledgement that "this is valid for me to believe" is all that is necessary.


.... but different things are helpful for different people I guess, and TG is free to take either of our advice.
Your mother might react exactly as you've said with comments about a phase and growing up. That's okay. It is not about getting her to react exactly how you want her to, it's about being honest. Your relationship with your mother is lifelong and there is time to heal from wounds of any conversation. Remember she is a full person and think of her personality before telling her - in my experience, it can be so difficult for kids to realize their parents make mistakes and have regrets when it comes to interacting with their children. She will be going through a confusing time in the exact same way you are.
Jayelle is spot-on here.
"But the conversation of the mind was truer than any language, and they knew each other better than they ever could have by use of mere sight and touch."

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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:35 pm

Thanks for this guys. I like the idea of a preemptive explanation of how it affects stuff.

Yes, being good Christians is pretty high on my parents' and my priority list and I haven't studied those passages yet, but I should. If, by my own interpretation, it seems wrong to 'practise' homosexuality, I can just persue heterosexual relationships and that'll be fine. I'm under the impression that sexuality is mainly a genetic thing though, and I don't see why God would've allowed for a gay-gene except maybe as a test of self-control for some people who end up with it.

Oh and starlooker, not daughter, son. I know there was some debate over my gender but it was confirmed as male somewhere along the line, but that's alright.

I have told my brothers and some of my friends since they were unlikely to lecture me and just accept it, so that's alright.

Something that makes it twice as awkward is that there's a *girl from goalball and a **guy who's a close family friend (brother-in-law's half-brother) and my parents know I like *her but not about **him.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby neo-dragon » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:44 pm

I'm under the impression that sexuality is mainly a genetic thing though, and I don't see why God would've allowed for a gay-gene except maybe as a test of self-control for some people who end up with it.
That seems rather cruel.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby starlooker » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:52 pm

Darn. I remembered the conversation, but not the outcome.

Same point, though :)
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby elfprince13 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:55 pm

Thanks for this guys. I like the idea of a preemptive explanation of how it affects stuff.

Yes, being good Christians is pretty high on my parents' and my priority list and I haven't studied those passages yet, but I should. If, by my own interpretation, it seems wrong to 'practise' homosexuality, I can just persue heterosexual relationships and that'll be fine. I'm under the impression that sexuality is mainly a genetic thing though, and I don't see why God would've allowed for a gay-gene except maybe as a test of self-control for some people who end up with it.
I'm glad you found that suggestion helpful. As with most things in life, there are probably aspects of sexual orientation which are affected by both nature and nurture.

Also, as far as it being a test of self control - James 1:13 'Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.' The question of why God allows bad things to happen (regardless of whether or not someone personally believes being born with a particular gene sequence to be one of those things) is called the "problem of evil". I don't want to derail your thread though, but if you feel like asking about it/discussing it, we can always do so in your "theorist" topic (or a new one).
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:58 pm

That seems rather cruel.
It does, doesn't it? Oh well, if that's the case, I guess I'm lucky. My brother sees it that way, he says "keeping your [my] options open". Makes it more convenient apparently.

[edit] Mmmm... we could discuss this in theorist. I was going to start something about the nature of consciousness and whether a thinking/self-aware computer could be considered human but you can start that up if you want, Thomas.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby neo-dragon » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:05 pm

I just bumped the theorist thread to discuss the problem of evil, but now I want to discuss the self-aware computer thing too!
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:33 pm

What do you guys think about waiting a year (give or take) so she'll not treat it like a "phase". I know that's not top priority but it'd be nice to avoid that part of it.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Jayelle » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:48 pm

What do you guys think about waiting a year (give or take) so she'll not treat it like a "phase". I know that's not top priority but it'd be nice to avoid that part of it.
I am not advising either way, but think about this: If she (or someone else close to you) had a secret that she didn't tell you for a year, would you be hurt when you found out, or relieved that it was resolved before she told you?
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Mich » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:50 pm

Probably not the best idea, as it will only build up stress on your part, and will probably have the same outcome. You do know your parents better than any of us, of course.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby starlooker » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:55 pm

I don't know that her calling it a phase would be so much about evidence as about denial - more a way of protecting herself and handling the news than something that a given amount of time will take away. Maybe wait until you're secure enough in your identity that you can handle that potential reaction, if that makes sense? It may help, and you know her best, of course, but don't count on it.

Would getting your brother's input be helpful? Since he knows your mom, too?
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:24 pm

Hmmm... probably wouldn't be much help to have my brother's input actually since he knows very little apart from the fact that I'm bi and like twink-types.

Wait until I'm secure enough in my identity? If I have to put up with more identity crap (we're doing 'identity and belonging' in English) I'll shoot something. I'm fine with who I am.

Oh, and the phase thing would just... I don't know, be mum assessing the situation and giving an estimation, not a shield. I don't think there's any reason she'd want to shield herself against me being bi, she'd just talk for hours about how I should just make sure and be comfortable with myself and what not and... rrrgh.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Rei » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:04 am

There is definitely something to be said for waiting at least for a time to be more comfortable with yourself. That time may be a year, may be less, may be more, and you may not ever hit a state of being perfectly comfortable with yourself. So long as you are not currently dating a boy, the subject is by its nature less immediately pressing to bring up with family. I know in my own experience it can help to wait a bit longer than initially thought before bringing up anything contentious with family, if only to settle myself a bit more in the matter.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:39 pm

So you're opting to wait a little? I'm settled/comfortable in the matter myself, I'm just not sure that mum ever will be. You're right, that as long as I'm not dating a guy the point isn't too pressing. I think it'd be different if I's gay because they'd eventually start wondering about why I didn't have a girlfriend and so at least that aspect isn't a problem.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Eaquae Legit » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:58 pm

I really can't add much to what others have said, especially Kirsten, Jayelle, and Rei. But my best wishes to you for a good, loving conversation whenever you decide to have it.

This is a great post/essay that you might want to keep in mind and show your mom if you need to.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby elfprince13 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:14 pm

"But the conversation of the mind was truer than any language, and they knew each other better than they ever could have by use of mere sight and touch."

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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Rei » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:20 pm

For myself, I'm waiting indefinitely. In my situation it isn't worth the strain on my relationship with my parents, whom I've already put considerable strain on in the past decade. That said, I'm sure our Naomi will accidentally make it notably more pressing once she learns to speak, but for now I plan on dealing with that bridge when we get to it. The best course of action really varies from person to person and relationship to relationship. All I offer is my own experience and reasoning which have been shaped by my specific situation.

On a related note, I really love the song Teach Your Children, by Crosby, Stills, and Nash.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:28 pm

Thanks guys. This's been good help, I think. We'll see when it happens I guess. And thanks for the link EL, I'll get to reading that ASAP.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:27 am

Thank you all for this! It was as much encouragement as it was advice and it worked, mostly.

Her response was less of a lecture (I told her first that it didn't seem like a 'phase' or any of that and intended to be a good Christian) and more of a little interrogation. She asked me why I thought it was true and who I had feelings for and would it upset a certain girl but really the only thing she told me to do was not put myself in a box.

I think having this thread definitely sped up the process of preparation so thank you all again so much. :) :)
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby starlooker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:50 am

I'm SO glad it went well! Thanks for letting us know!
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There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
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There's another life out there...

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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Rei » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:56 am

That sounds brilliantly positive!
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby elfprince13 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:44 am

Thank you all for this! It was as much encouragement as it was advice and it worked, mostly.

Her response was less of a lecture (I told her first that it didn't seem like a 'phase' or any of that and intended to be a good Christian) and more of a little interrogation. She asked me why I thought it was true and who I had feelings for and would it upset a certain girl but really the only thing she told me to do was not put myself in a box.

I think having this thread definitely sped up the process of preparation so thank you all again so much. :) :)

Sounds like one of the better outcomes you could have hoped for :)
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby steph » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:54 am

I'm happy to hear your relationship with your mom is going to stay strong. :)
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Mich » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:20 am

Sounds like good news, dude. Thanks for the update.
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:57 am

Pweb has some awesome people; I'm glad they were able to help and even more than that, I'm glad it went so well. :)
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:06 pm

Thanks :)
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

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Tiny genius
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:25 am

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll just continue on with this one. Just wanted to let you guys know that I've finished telling every member of my immediate family (plus some close friends) about me being bi. It's all gone quite well, but I think Mum's still clinging to the hope/idea that it's a phase and has told me to 'keep it under your [my] hat for a few years'. I'd listen, only I don't wear a hat and never intend to, physical or metaphorical.
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

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Mich
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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Mich » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:52 pm

You should get a fez. Fezzes are cool.
Shell the unshellable, crawl the uncrawlible.

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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Tiny genius » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:25 pm

Ha! When I read the reply, I'm thinking, "Okay, completely random Doctor Who quote, fun but why?" until I re-read the end of my own post and got it. I'm not a fan of the fez, one of only a few differences between what myself and the Doctor consider to be "cool". Whenever I take those silly tests like "What Doctor Who Character Are You?", half the time I get the Doctor.

But back to the point, there is one member of my family I haven't told, but he's nine and I think I'll wait. I think that keeping from everyone for 'a few years' might not be so easy, partly because I want to tell and partly because, what if I get a boyfriend?
"Other universes may exist, but ours seems to be based on war and games" - William S. Burroughs

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Re: Can you guys help with a dilema?

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:24 am

Do I think you should hide it from the 9 year old? No.

But I also don't think you should rush telling the 9 year old just to cross him off your list of people you've told.

If you get a boyfriend, do I think you should tell the 9 year old then? Only if he asks. If it were me, I'd want to be open about it, without being pushy, but treat it as though it were the same as being straight, which, well, it is in all the ways that matter. Would you be so concerned with the 9 year old knowing if you were only into girls? If so, then I guess tell him when you start dating.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.


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