PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

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PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:50 pm

In an effort to make our site integrate a bit more seamlessly with our affilliate Ender's Game Movie News Outlet Ender's Ansible, it's been proposed to have a new logo design to more clearly connect the two sites.

Here's my first submission on this front. This thread should be open for anyone to submit their own, as well as to give their feedback and thoughts.

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Gravity Defier » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:31 pm

I don't have the skills to contribute but I can give thoughts on that one. :)

Overall, I think it does a good job of matching to Cassandra's design over at EA but I've never been a big fan of using pictures of actors in these types of images. This one isn't too noticeable, or at least not too distracting to me, but I'd rather see a solid color fade in place of the Asa image. The portion to the left, of the book cover, is okay for me; maybe it's an issue of permanence and seeing stuff made with Jake Lloyd and HJO way back when that turned me off to people being included.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby LilBee91 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:54 pm

Pretty much what Alea said. If only I were more graphically inclined.

I can't decide if I like the fonts being so similar to each other but different. I don't know if it would be better to have them identical or more different. And I think I'd prefer a more solid background without images, though this one is pretty subtle. I'm not really a design person though.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:25 am

So I wasn't sure how closely you guys wanted it to match, or what your preferred banner dimensions are, but I made you this
1200x300 is the actual size
colors, words, size, placement etc can be changed let me know it you want to see something similar but slightly different (it's easy and I have time)
Image
Last edited by Cassandra on Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:30 am

I can't decide if I like the fonts being so similar to each other but different.
Taalcon what font did you use? I think I like it better because of the black shading.
I used Coalition from dafonts.com
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Claire » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:13 am

Hey...whatever happened to all those logos people designed a few years ago?

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Jayelle » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:16 am

Hey...whatever happened to all those logos people designed a few years ago?
You meanthis thread? Most of the pictures seem to be dead links by now, sadly.

I agree with Alea, I don't love having a real person in the background. Seem like it'll get dated fast. I like Cassandra's, but I'd love to see something more... simple? Streamlined? Looking around at what other websites have, most of them are fairly simple - obviously we can't design our own font, but could we create a... logo? Ender's Game or EG as a symbol?
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:54 am

Gotcha.

I would note that at the very least, eventually Cassandra's site should have EG movie-related visual material. Because right now, its key purpose is showing EG news.

There needs to be something instantly recognized as ENDER'S GAME for all those who stop by, to show in a glance, yes, this is the place you're looking for, and should explore a little bit. We are associated withm and are trying to hook people who are familiar with a particular product. It needs to be very clear, quickly, and visually, that yes, we are relevant to the product they had in mind.

For decades, the old school book cover was enough. But now, even in the states, its gone into multiple prints and covers, and it's not guaranteed that readers of EG will be associated with that Space/YellowShip design. (That, for me, is used to resonate with the older fans, as 'classic'.). Newer and younger readers will associate with the more vibrant Battle School-based covers, and even perhaps designs from the Marvel Comics.

Very soon, though, the world will be instantly associated with EG through the visuals of the film, like it or not. While I'm happy to change and play with the concepts, I'd be careful before vetoing a certain image just because it would later "be dated, and too closely associate with the movie". Because from another perspective, that's actually a bonus for the here and now: It shows relevence in-the-moment, and a close association with the project most are going to be interested in at this point as their initially seeking us out, and making an in-the-moment decision whether to explore more, or just hit the back button. It's more of a marketing thing than an idealist/purist way of thinking about it ;)

And the difference between this and the old HJO/JL images are, well, AB actually is in the movie ;)

And Cassandra, the font I used was called 'Capture It'. It's a free download out there somewhere.

I'll play some more, though.

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:24 am

Image

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Petra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:47 am

Are we dedicated to "An Ender's Game Community | Associated with ENDER'S ANSIBLE?"

Because the "associated with" makes me feel like this is an APB on PWeb.

ATTENTION ALL CARS: BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR PHILOTIC WEB, A ROGUE COMMUNITY OF LIKE-MINDED ENDER'S GAME FANS WHO ARE SUSPECTED OF BREWING SUSPICIOUS LIME-BASED BEVERAGES AND ADMINISTERING PSYCHOACTIVE DRUGS TO HAPLESS AMPHIBIANS. THIS COMMUNITY IS ASSOCIATED WITH ENDER'S ANSIBLE. APPROACH WITH CAUTION.


What about something like:

Community partner to the Ender's Game news site: Ender's Ansible
An Ender's Game community partner with Ender's Ansible
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby LilBee91 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:33 pm

1) I prefer the font with shading.
2) What Petra said about "associated with." Partner sounds a bit friendlier.
3) It would be cool to have a logo that was "up-to-date." Something we could change up with the latest news rather easily--a SiF cover, movie poster, comic thing, etc.
4) If we're going to have real people, can we have them off to side of the words? AB's eyes staring at me between the letters is kind of creepy.
5) I like the look of a more faded logo, but if we're going for the whole "show them we're what they want" marketing strategy should it be less watered-down? Even though we have specific EG things in ours, Cassandra's seems to scream "EG" a lot more to me since I don't have to look so hard for it.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. I don't know if there is a good way to make all of it work.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:26 pm

If anyone wants to play around here's a blank long banner (slightly different from what I use on my own site, currently)
Image
and here's a blank from my old banner
Image

I have a lot of pictures of Asa but he's wearing glasses in all or most of them... if anyone wants to see them I could post them.

I like "Philotic Web: Partnered with Ender's Ansible"
Taalcon you don't have to copy my font, whatever we decide on we can made a more similar version for my site.
.
4) If we're going to have real people, can we have them off to side of the words? AB's eyes staring at me between the letters is kind of creepy.
I agree!
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:39 pm

The below takes into consideration the suggestions. The 'ship' image on the left is designed to be a space that can be easily switched out with other images as would be relevent and useful.

Image

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Petra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:41 pm

Oooh, I like.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:42 pm

If a battle school image is used, I'd like it to be either one inspired by Steve Sywak's design (like the comics did), or, if different, what they end up using for the movie. Steve's it somewhat the definitive version, as not only have the comics used it, but its also featured in the Ender Companion book with Steve's article ;) That's some of my aversion to using the station design image that Cassandra has. I feel like we'd be betraying Steve ;)

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:23 pm

If a battle school image is used, I'd like it to be either one inspired by Steve Sywak's design (like the comics did), or, if different, what they end up using for the movie. Steve's it somewhat the definitive version, as not only have the comics used it, but its also featured in the Ender Companion book with Steve's article ;) That's some of my aversion to using the station design image that Cassandra has. I feel like we'd be betraying Steve ;)
That's fine. Steve just sent me a Battle School Design the other day, it's on the front page of my site on the right side bar if anyone wants to download and play.
Also, I'll say it again I don't really want to use are copy righted images (like the comics) because early on Google took down one of my banners because it had a picture from the comic on it.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:26 pm

Also, I liked how you had the words "Ender's Game" in light blue in one of the designs, you don't include it in the most recent design but I like the light blue better
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Jayelle » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:32 pm

oooh. I really like your most recent one, Dave.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:46 pm

Image

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:09 pm

Slight adjustment here:
Image
To align with this suggestion here:
Image

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:50 pm

If we decide not to go with a battle school option...
Image
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:26 pm

If we're going for characters... I actually kinda like this one, even though there seems to be something slightly off... maybe the blue is too bright?
Image
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby LilBee91 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:33 pm

I think the edges of the letters are too hard. Maybe a bit of shadow or fading? A beveled edge? I like the layout of that one, though.

*wishes she had Photoshop and/or GIMP skills to contribute to this*
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:44 pm

I think the edges of the letters are too hard. Maybe a bit of shadow or fading? A beveled edge? I like the layout of that one, though.

*wishes she had Photoshop and/or GIMP skills to contribute to this*
You don't need photoshop! I'm only using a combination of MS Paint and MS Word
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Gravity Defier » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:45 pm

My favorite, of the newest batch, is this one. I'm not going to make a huge deal out of it, so if you all decide to go with actors, that's what it'll be but it's still my preference that actors be left out. At this point, if you're saying it's for marketing purposes, I'm not sure there's any actor who is so immediately and easily recognizable and associated with the movie, people will stay just because they see their picture. I'd be willing to change my tune on Live Action/Actor pictures if they release Battle Room images or them in their suits or something that is not an actor's face and only an actor's face. That sort of banner, with Asa's or anyone else's face, I think will be best used after the movie is released. Just my two cents.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:06 pm

I'm with Alea.

I think she's right that at the very least, waiting for official production stills or promo images before making use of them would be wise. And when we do, it shouldn't be the only - or most prominent - thing we see, and dominate the logo. If anything, a subtle (but visible) cue - like the stylized classic 'yellow ship' as a circular tab on my last design.

And as it stands, PWEB is the community aspect, where EA is the specific movie aspect. I can see the EA header having updated headshots/stills, etc as things roll out. But PWEB doesn't need to have that prominence.

I get ahead of myself sometimes, and just need to stand back, and re-evaluate.

So, I'm agreeing with what's been said :)

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:25 pm

And Cassandra, if you're wanting to go the keep-banner-updated route, I'd be happy to keep updating it for you with things like this:

Image

If you would like to keep it relevant and fresh.

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:41 pm

My favorite, of the newest batch, is this one. I'm not going to make a huge deal out of it, so if you all decide to go with actors, that's what it'll be but it's still my preference that actors be left out. At this point, if you're saying it's for marketing purposes, I'm not sure there's any actor who is so immediately and easily recognizable and associated with the movie, people will stay just because they see their picture. I'd be willing to change my tune on Live Action/Actor pictures if they release Battle Room images or them in their suits or something that is not an actor's face and only an actor's face. That sort of banner, with Asa's or anyone else's face, I think will be best used after the movie is released. Just my two cents.
That one is also my favorite so far, but I have to admit I'm not a fan of that watermark-ish type design for my own logo. I think it works though for the little yellow ship in the corner.
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:03 pm

Here's that last EA concept without the water-color effect. What further thoughts, suggestions, etc do you have?

Image

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:19 pm

Here's that last EA concept without the water-color effect. What further thoughts, suggestions, etc do you have?

Image
I don't particularly care for the actor's images either way, but if you guys think we should keep them for marketing purposes then sure. If we decide to keep them I would say let's only keep confirmed actors on it- that's only two: Asa and Brendan and maybe put their character names under their picture. Yes? Or maybe put hallow blank squares for the diffferent characters and fill them in as the cast is revealed. That way they're in order of importantance: Ender, Val, Peter, Bean etc. or whatever order you guys think is most important..

Also keep in mind my site width is different that yours so if we want to keep the font the same you would make your final draft on a different blank. I'll keep looking for the right banner blank a I used and post it for you. (I literally have about 50 that are very similar and different... all in different locations. My EG pictures/files are completely all over the place right now)
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby thoughtreader » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:21 pm

I don't think anyone has really said anything favorable about the actor images. If anything on EA there will be images in the news section. So it you aren't a big fan of then keep then off your header.

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Cassandra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:49 pm

This is the right size blank for my site
Image
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Jayelle » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:10 am

I don't think anyone has really said anything favorable about the actor images. If anything on EA there will be images in the news section. So it you aren't a big fan of then keep then off your header.
QFT. I think having actors in the header is silly. I've never seen another site with that.

I think this one is by far the best.
Image
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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Taalcon » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:43 am

As I've said, I'm in agreement with what's been said for our header currently.

Although Jayelle, I don't know what fansites/news outlets you're familiar with. The three major 'fansites'/news outlets I'm familiar with - http://theforce.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and http://theonering.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://the-leaky-cauldron.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (each immensely popular, and both which get insider exclusives and premiers) , often trade out their header-logos, and have definitely had actor/character images as part of their headers (theforce.net just switched their out from last night, which had actors, and now has the characters from the currently-airing Clone Wars series, and theonering.net now has a Tolkien Christmas theme).

While I'm not saying that their methods are necessarily right for us,
a) yes, extremely popular and influential fan/newssites/communities really do occasionally do it. It's not 'weird' for a site giving news on a book-to-movie casting to emphasize the new cast in its header.
b) even with those who haven't, not having been done is really no reason to rule something out - it might even be a good reason TO do it at the right time, and in the right way, and for the right reasons.

THAT BEING SAID, as Pweb stands right now, I don't see the need for it. Some of you may change your tone if and when some particularly awesome in-character shots get released from the studio (especially for Ender's Ansible!). It also is an indicator for those who tend to judge a website before even scrolling down the news whether its something updated and relevant, if there's up to date imagery.

EA is being used to connect with the movie interest crowd. Our base at PWEB is the book crowd, and we do want to show our loyalty to them over all (hence the 'classic' ship symbol indicates that).

And as for copyright? Most studios, if you are actively promoting (for free!) their product, they are very happy to consider usage of (and even provide!) images as fair use.

Just some thoughts to consider for the future.

And to make clear, I'm not currently campaigning to throw in actor's faces on PWEB's banner right now. Just addressing the specific reasons for not doing it I've seen expressed I see them.

Right now, by far the most convincing and forceful argument is, "Hey, we just don't like it".

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Re: PWEB COMMITTEE: Design/Logo Integration Discussion

Postby Boothby » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:20 pm

I like the suggestion to use MY STUFF in the header, of course.....how can I help?
--Boothby

"The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell


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