Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!

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Total votes: 19

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Postby Gravity Defier » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:09 pm

#
Alea :
Hi, Ami. I was wondering what there was to do in order to get the transfer of Pweb rolling again. We're still very much interested in making upgrades to the forum software and adding a site back to it but can't without your help. Please let us know. Thanks. Alea

#
Ami:

Hi Alea,
I would love that.
I am at Worldcon. Please ping me again on Monday. I don't want to forget.

Thanks,

Ami

I should keep being annoying and ping her on Monday, yes? I just got that response about an hour ago.
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Postby Jayelle » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:16 pm

I wish you luck.
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Postby mr_thebrain » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:19 pm

yep. keep being annoying :)
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Postby neo-dragon » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:11 pm

I don't think that it's being annoying if she asked you to do it.
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Postby Noodle » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:58 pm

REMINDER: It's Monday!

Carry on. :D
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Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:20 pm

Message sent 4 hours ago. :) And if she ignores it, I'm prepared to figure out the least obnoxious, obnoxious messaging schedule to continue assisting her memory on the matter.
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Postby steph » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:48 pm

Message sent 4 hours ago. :) And if she ignores it, I'm prepared to figure out the least obnoxious, obnoxious messaging schedule to continue assisting her memory on the matter.
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:33 pm

Someone should make a mail bot to remind her every twelve hours until she hands over the codes to the server and domain just to get us to shut up and leave her alone. She has worse procrastination/forgetful issues than I do.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:45 pm

#
Alea
Monday
*

<ping> :)

#
Alea
54 minutes ago
Alea

*

Just another reminder! Thanks.

#
Ami
20 minutes ago
Ami

*

I have scoured my email for the info I need to give you, that I was told was given me. In fact, I think this was the hold up last time. Insisting I had the info, when I didn't. So I'm telling them to please send it to me again.
It's a matter of the admin passwords for the host account that our partner set, because the email is broken and I can't get the password for my admin account.

Thanks for reminding me again though. A ton of things has happened.

Take care,

Ami
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Postby Noodle » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:54 pm

that sounds both promising and like a big let down at the same time.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:36 pm

#
Alea

*

Wondering how things are coming along. We really appreciate your efforts on our behalf.

#
Ami
about a minute ago
Ami

*

Hi Alea,

So it turns out that there is something messed up on the database server, which is why it won't send emails. You're probably saying, "No duh." Sorry about that.

Vladimir and another friend are going to back up the database and move it to a better server. At the same time, they'll upgrade the BB software. We'll give full admin rights to the BB and server to whoever you want.

So, slowly but moving forward.

Thanks,

Ami
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Postby Noodle » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:41 pm

I was *just* going to ask. excellent.
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Postby ender1 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:02 pm

Upgraded phpBB? A tear just came to my eye.

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Postby zeroguy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:08 pm

Wait what? I thought what we were asking for was a domain transfer. Is ami still owning philoticweb.net ?
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Postby Gravity Defier » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:24 am

If I'm understanding that terminology correctly, then I guess that last message of hers does imply that she'll still have a hand in things and some amount of control, doesn't it?

I don't know how this works but I am pretty sure during her talks with Jan, it was made clear that we want the whole thing, ownership of the URL, included.


Should I say something to clarify, and if so, sooner or later, after we actually get some control over the board?
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Postby Jayelle » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:38 am

I'm so sorry for a misunderstanding. I have been avoiding this thread, basically, because I'm scared of not being able to follow through on things again.

Here's what happened from my end. In early 2010, Ami and I had this conversation:
Hi Ami,
...

I know that your life is busy and you've moved on from pweb, and that's fine, but it can be a little frustrating that the administrative options are unavailable to us.
So, I have a bit of a proposition for you - If you aren't interested in running pweb anymore would you be willing to give it up in a more permanent way? I would be willing to host and run pweb, either by buying philoticweb.net from you, or, if it's simpler for you, by buying philoticweb.org if you're willing to make .net and .com into mirrors of or links to philoticweb.org.

I would like to be able to do this with as minimal work from you as necessary, since I understand that life is busy, but I would like to be able to keep pweb alive and running well into the future.
Her response:
Once upon a time, I even asked on the forum for someone to do that, and had no takers. I am very busy writing now and am happy to let someone have it. It’s a good community and deserves to live. My husband does have a friend who also expressed interest in helping Pweb get along. I’d be happy to give everything to you since you are already so involved with the people there, and have him help.

So now I guess we just need to get this all figured out.

Thanks!

Ami
Me:
Hi,

Sounds great. I'm happy to take over. I'm not sure about restarting the main page or anything, I think someone else would have to help with that, but I am happy to host.
How much are we looking at per month?
Hi Again,

I don't want to be too much of a pest, but I'd like to get moving on this. What will it take to transfer the hosting.

Thanks,
Jan
Her final response:
Hi Jan,

I’m so sorry I dropped the ball on this. You caught me just before I was going on a trip and then I forgot. Thank you so much for reminding me.

For right now, let’s get you the username/password to the web admin and ftp. I actually don’t know that since I don’t really admin our web stuff. Vladimir (my husband) knows that. I’m sending this to him as well and will talk to him about it. Once you have that, you’ll be able to move forward in whatever direction you want. Vladimir has expressed the feeling that we still don’t mind paying for it. But we don’t have time and we do want someone to give it the love and care it needs.

Please direct emails about this to him as well as me.

Also, and please don’t let me forget, I have many files to rebuild the website as it was, if you’d like. I’m on deadline until March 4th, so on Friday evening if I don’t get them to you please email me. I’m also on MSN messenger at ami@geekatplay.com. (This email is still better, as that one is a bit unreliable.) Dave Tayman may also have a few things, but I’m not sure. He’s since been on a mission, gotten married and has a baby.

Cheers!

Ami
Then I attempted three more times to contact her before getting this response:
I am trying to get that right now. We have a partner that helps us who does most of the server admin stuff, and we’ve called him. He’ll be calling us when he gets home from work. I will keep pushing buttons here until we get it done for you.
Then nothing.


So, she does want to still be the host, just for us/me to be admin. I'm fine with that, but I'd rather it be given over completely. I wonder if we should make her an offer. If each of us who actually care about pweb would be willing to give a couple bucks, I'm sure we could say "Here, this is how serious we are about taking it over completely from you."
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Postby Wind Swept » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:05 am

So, she does want to still be the host, just for us/me to be admin. I'm fine with that, but I'd rather it be given over completely. I wonder if we should make her an offer. If each of us who actually care about pweb would be willing to give a couple bucks, I'm sure we could say "Here, this is how serious we are about taking it over completely from you."
An offer? It's not like she's making money hosting this place. Seems a bit silly to pay her to stop hosting the site for free.
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Postby Luet » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:27 am

I'm really confused as to why she still wants any part of it. Maybe someone could just outright ask her? I know it's a delicate matter, though. Gah!

I'd be happy to join in the communication, since I've met her and all, though I doubt she remembers me. But I don't know that adding another person to the correspondence stream would help at this point. But seriously guys, let me know if there is ANYthing I can do (you know I mean it).
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Postby Jayelle » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:40 am

So, she does want to still be the host, just for us/me to be admin. I'm fine with that, but I'd rather it be given over completely. I wonder if we should make her an offer. If each of us who actually care about pweb would be willing to give a couple bucks, I'm sure we could say "Here, this is how serious we are about taking it over completely from you."
An offer? It's not like she's making money hosting this place. Seems a bit silly to pay her to stop hosting the site for free.
Yes, but clearly her *time* is valuable. So if we offer money, perhaps she could find the time.
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:49 am

I'm really confused as to why she still wants any part of it. Maybe someone could just outright ask her? I know it's a delicate matter, though. Gah!
I would imagine, much like the other oldies that drift off and occasionally come back (pointedly does not look at Noodle or Adam), she still feels a connection to this place and still wants to be involved, if only barely.

I, though, like everyone else here, would prefer if she transfered domain ownership to us so we (hopefully) won't have to worry about an absent or inattentive admin causing problems again.
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:54 am

So, she does want to still be the host, just for us/me to be admin. I'm fine with that, but I'd rather it be given over completely. I wonder if we should make her an offer. If each of us who actually care about pweb would be willing to give a couple bucks, I'm sure we could say "Here, this is how serious we are about taking it over completely from you."
An offer? It's not like she's making money hosting this place. Seems a bit silly to pay her to stop hosting the site for free.
Yes, but clearly her *time* is valuable. So if we offer money, perhaps she could find the time.
Informing her that we'd be willing and able to pay the domain registration and hosting costs for the foreseeable future should be the only money we need to worry about. I don't mean to be rude (or maybe I do, a little >.>), but if we're going to put a price on her time, then she should owe us money for all the problems we've been having since the crash due to her not spending time on site maitenence.
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Postby starlooker » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:04 am

Because I really know nothing about how any of the magic that is the Internet works, could someone explain to me what potential problems we could run into with her owning it but some of us having full admin rights?

I mean, I'd like it if someone who pays attention to and loves the site were the owner. But I'd be content if someone who pays attention to and loves the site at least just has full run of it. However, as I said, I may not be seeing the full picture.

Could we ask her for an approximate timeframe on the things she's already talked about? (And maybe offer some payment for that, just as insurance that it gets done? I do think it's more likely to get done if it's seen more as a job than an old hobby.)

I don't know. But seeing as she's been more communicative lately than she has been, it might be a good idea to at least bring up the ownership issue and see how she responds. *shrugs*
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:20 am

I don't really understand it either, but from what I've been told, as long as she controls the physical server we can potentionally continue to have all the same problems and new ones if she goes AWOL again, even if our own techies have top-level access. And really, unless she pulls a Noodle and actually comes back - as opposed to merely conversing with us via email - I'd feel much better knowing we have direct control over everything ourselves.
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Postby Ela » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:34 am

I'm really confused as to why she still wants any part of it. Maybe someone could just outright ask her? I know it's a delicate matter, though. Gah!

I'd be happy to join in the communication, since I've met her and all, though I doubt she remembers me. But I don't know that adding another person to the correspondence stream would help at this point. But seriously guys, let me know if there is ANYthing I can do (you know I mean it).
I'm fairly certain she would still remember you.
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Postby ender1 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:26 am

I read it as we'd get shell access which would mean we'd get full run of the place, it would just mean she'd have the domain and it'd be on her server.

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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:29 am

As long as you're happy, I suppose it'll do. You can't really fault me for being wary, though.
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Postby Jayelle » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:15 am

So, she does want to still be the host, just for us/me to be admin. I'm fine with that, but I'd rather it be given over completely. I wonder if we should make her an offer. If each of us who actually care about pweb would be willing to give a couple bucks, I'm sure we could say "Here, this is how serious we are about taking it over completely from you."
An offer? It's not like she's making money hosting this place. Seems a bit silly to pay her to stop hosting the site for free.
Yes, but clearly her *time* is valuable. So if we offer money, perhaps she could find the time.
Informing her that we'd be willing and able to pay the domain registration and hosting costs for the foreseeable future should be the only money we need to worry about. I don't mean to be rude (or maybe I do, a little >.>), but if we're going to put a price on her time, then she should owe us money for all the problems we've been having since the crash due to her not spending time on site maitenence.
This is exactly why I don't say anything. Because apparently my suggestions are stupid.

Isn't buying a domain something people do? Like, if I wanted to own jayelle.com, but some other person owned it, I would offer them money for it and they might sell it to me?
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:19 am

If we're going to buy her out, can we form a closely held corporation and sell stock, too?
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:21 am

You can buy domains from the current owner, but I don't really see the need in our case. Pweb is hardly a Facebook or Amazon that's (supposedly) worth millions more than the paltry $25 annual registration cost. Now if Ami offered to sell it and set a price, that would be one thing, but I wouldn't offer anything up front.
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Postby Noodle » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:40 am

I do server admin stuff all the time, so I'd be more than happy to help out in any way that I can. Though I don't think I want to be in one of the lead admin roles of the site, simply because I don't have a ton of extra time and I don't want to be in a position where I'm holding up future upgrades or moves.

After doing some basic investigative work, I found that the site is apparently hosted on godaddy.com's servers. It's registered under the geekatplay studios name, which is the company her husband runs, and she works for. My guess is that the company is paying for hosting, since their geekatplay.com site is also hosted by godaddy.

I don't see any problem with Ami hanging onto the server rights, and continuing to pay for the site, as long as we have someone who is active that has FTP/SSH/Control Panel access to the site. If we attained the godaddy account information for the PWeb account, we would have the ability to make any changes we want with as little disruption as possible.

The problem comes in that I'm not sure how their GoDaddy account is set up. If the geekatplay and pweb sites are configured under the same account, it might be difficult for them to split admin access and only grant us access to the PWeb side of things. I'm sure they don't want one of us to have access to the website for their business, just like we don't want to have access to that site.

If we did gain control panel access to the GoDaddy site, we should be able to do everything, including move off of GoDaddy if we decide to do that at a later date. Once we had that level of access, the only missing piece would be the actual domain registration which Ami has done a good job at keeping up to date.

I don't object to one/all of us taking over the domain name and hosting responsibilities, but I don't necessarily want to put anyone in that position, since it will cost money. I'd be willing to donate some money towards the cause, but I don't really want us to get into a situation where we're having to ask for donations to keep the site alive. I'm sure lots of us here would donate to the cause, but then if we didn't it would fall on whoever has the site in their name, and that can cause awkwardness.
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:51 am

I can't remember if I ever mentioned it publicly, but back when we initially started these upgrade/move discussions and Will bought the .org domain I privately offered to help with the financial side of things. It's not like it would be (what I would consider) a lot anyway. According to his numbers at the time, if we owned the domain and hosted it ourselves through a third party provider, the total annual cost would be less than the $15/month I used pay for my WoW subscription.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:13 pm

Way to kill the board pretty much my entire workday, Josh. :P


For one, Jan, I don't think your idea of buying it or getting it for free or whatever-ing it from Ami was a stupid idea. I really would put money down to have her hand it over 100%, just as I'd put money down to host it if need be.


I'm understanding that we could do everything we want (add a homepage/site back to the forum) with what she's prepared to hand over and if we're okay with that and can guarantee we'll maintain control and never, ever go through 5+ years of helplessness again, then I can be okay with what she's doing now.

The only reason I don't like the idea of her wanting to keep ownership of the whatever (<- fancy technical term) is because I have this weird sense of ownership; she doesn't post, I'll bet big money she doesn't lurk, and she probably doesn't think about this place until one of us is knocking on her door. She may have started it but that she didn't stick it out, that it's existed for nearly half of it's life without her being an active part of it doesn't, in my mind, imply she deserves to own it. Silly, non-important reason that I can get past and I admit that.
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Postby Jayelle » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:25 pm

My pure speculation is that it's HER name that's linked to it in the thank-yous of whatever Shadow book it is. So maybe she wants to still be linked to it...forever? I have no idea.
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Postby Noodle » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:34 pm

It's possible that we can get all the passwords from her (even for the domain name) and simply not change anything. Apart from upgrading the board of course.

If we have passwords so that we can seize control if needed in the future, that's good enough for me. That said, I can also get behind the idea of complete ownership. I'd be willing to do some donations to keep this place alive. Even when I wasn't active here it was nice to always know that it was here. That you were here.
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Postby GS » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:42 pm

If we're going to buy her out, can we form a closely held corporation and sell stock, too?
Hell yes!


But on the subject of owning it, I think it should be a community wide thing for payment. Obviously voluntary, but I think setting up a paypal account for donations would easy enough. I would certainly be will to pay the monthly costs for whomever takes over the hosting duty if that actually happens.


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