Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!

New forum software:

phpbb
8
42%
SMF
11
58%
 
Total votes: 19

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.

Postby starlooker » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:42 am

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care, but I will probably not be making the move to the new forum. To be perfectly honest, I only return to this one out of a stringing sense of loyalty and the transfer to a new domain feels like the severing of that strand. As always, however, I wish you all the best of luck and hope the new site does you wonders!

In case anyone needs to reach me, please email at oliver.hanson AT gmail.com or, of course, find me on facebook (Oliver Dale Hanson).

Cheers!
Not. Cool. At. All.

Dude, it will take you less than five minutes to register on the new forum, which will differ from this one by about five words. All of the old posts will still be there. All of us will still be there. Changing from .net to .org is, frankly, a silly thing to be the last thread of loyalty to cling to. Cling to the fact that you once promised me when I graduated you would give me financial advice and we have yet to have that conversation.
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

User avatar
Wind Swept
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:09 pm
Title: Just Another Chris
First Joined: 22 Jan 2003

Postby Wind Swept » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:49 am

static pages get such a bad rep and i don't know why. you can have dynamic content on a static page, they're easy as hell to maintain and they can be pretty as s*** if someone puts a little time and effort into making them that way. and considering the nature of this website i don't see as we'll be making a whole lot of changes to is as time goes by. maybe a small update on a new book here, or new movie news there.
But you need FTP access to update them. It's so easy to set up and skin a WordPress install, there's no point in using a static page.

I'm going to take a crack at skinning a wiki, see if I can't learn to love it.
"Roland was staring at Tiffany, so nonplussed he was nearly minused."

*Philoticweb.net = Phoebe (Discord)

User avatar
Petrie
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:27 pm
Title: GD in Disguise

Postby Petrie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:42 pm

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care,
I honestly don't know what to say to that. As you can see from the responses, I would say most absolutely care. Just who do you think you are, mister? You're Rahl/SMG/Snuggles, for crying out loud.
but I will probably not be making the move to the new forum.
I see the word "probably" there. That means you still might. Think about it? I know it is unrealistic to think a move can be made without losing people but I'm a bit taken aback that you would be one of them. That's a lot of history to sever.


I'm going to take a crack at skinning a wiki, see if I can't learn to love it.
Thanks, Chris.
So raise your glass if you are wrong in all the right ways, all my underdogs.

ender1
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 690
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:22 am
Title: I know Photo-fu

Postby ender1 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:27 pm

You're Rahl/SMG/Snuggles, for crying out loud.
Glad to see people using Snuggles.
I'm going to take a crack at skinning a wiki, see if I can't learn to love it.
Thanks, Chris.
I was going to take a crack at it, but my linux box/appletv is down at the moment. I guess I'll just set up apache on the laptop.

mr_thebrain
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:22 pm
Title: The same thing we do every night...
First Joined: 0- 7-2000
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Postby mr_thebrain » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:19 pm

But you need FTP access to update them. It's so easy to set up and skin a WordPress install, there's no point in using a static page..
Last i checked FTP is simple. how many people are really going to be working on it and making regular changes to it that it's a hassle to use FTP?

i'm willing to bet that while we all will have a say in what's on the pages, and i'm sure there will be volunteers to write the information that will appear on the pages, but only 1 or 2 people will be adding it to the site. in which case FTP=best

just sayin'
Ubernaustrum

User avatar
Wil
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1373
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:07 pm
Title: Not the mama!
Location: 36° 11' 39" N, 115° 13' 19" W

Postby Wil » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:54 pm

Maintaining static pages is stupid.

Just sayin'.

mr_thebrain
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:22 pm
Title: The same thing we do every night...
First Joined: 0- 7-2000
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Postby mr_thebrain » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:35 pm

if the content is constantly changing yes, i agree. but we're not talking about that, are we? i bet we'd update maybe once a year, if even. kinda what static pages are made for...
Ubernaustrum

zeroguy
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2741
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:29 pm
Title: 01111010 01100111
First Joined: 0- 8-2001
Location: Where you least expect me.
Contact:

Postby zeroguy » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:10 pm

static pages get such a bad rep and i don't know why.
Because it requires the person updating it to be aware of HTML, and to some extent, the visual structure of the site itself. Assuming that's what you're talking about, it restricts the number of people who can update the content, and makes separating the visual presentation of the information vs the information itself a pain.

It tends to make more sense to store information in a simpler more intuitive syntax that is more common knowledge (bbcode, markdown, textile, mediawiki syntax, etc) and can be easily translated into whatever template.

A wiki does not even imply editing via one of those dumb web interfaces; ikiwiki for example can be maintained via git and compiled into static pages.
if the content is constantly changing yes, i agree. but we're not talking about that, are we? i bet we'd update maybe once a year, if even. kinda what static pages are made for...
Eh? I thought we were talking about stuff like e.g. the old Encyclopedia.
Proud member of the Canadian Alliance.

dgf hhw

User avatar
Wind Swept
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:09 pm
Title: Just Another Chris
First Joined: 22 Jan 2003

Postby Wind Swept » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:39 am

Now I remember why I hate forum software: Tables. Gross.

*back to poking around*
"Roland was staring at Tiffany, so nonplussed he was nearly minused."

*Philoticweb.net = Phoebe (Discord)

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:45 pm

I'm really having trouble understanding everyones dislike of then wiki format.
Others have already stated it better than I can, but I want an original, personalized website, not a cookie-cutter wiki. Unless you can find a way to completely disguise the wiki back end with a prettier non-wiki based face, I'd rather we tried something else.

Also, I'm not convinced we need the everyone-has-easy-access wiki stuff. We don't have an ever-expanding larger-than-life extended universe like Star Wars or Star Trek to catalog. I honestly don't remember what we did have on the old site, but it didn't seem like much. We should be fine with a content submission section on the SMF forums where anyone can post their ideas, from which the admins could then add the approved content to the database. It might be a bit hectic for the first couple of months while we're building the site, but after that submissions will slow down to a trickle like how everything non-Milagre currently is.

Having the database under lock and key would also prevent us from having to deal with housekeeping bogus edits and spam. As annoying as the spambot invasion was a few years ago, it would be ten times as annoying to need to keep a constant vigilant eye on an open wiki database.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

mr_thebrain
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:22 pm
Title: The same thing we do every night...
First Joined: 0- 7-2000
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Postby mr_thebrain » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:54 pm

what he said.
Ubernaustrum

User avatar
Wind Swept
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:09 pm
Title: Just Another Chris
First Joined: 22 Jan 2003

Postby Wind Swept » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:24 pm

Okay, I've done some poking around in the MediaWiki source code. It's really not that bad to skin it to look like whatever you want. We could have a very "original, personalized website" looking Wiki skin with a matching SMF theme, assuming someone has time to design it. If we can come up with a design we can agree on, I'd be more than happy to turn it into a skin/theme. I'd be willing to take a crack at a design myself, but I know I won't have the time for at least a couple weeks.

As far as the free-for-all nature of a Wiki, your suggestion of users submitting content and the admins choosing what goes on the site should be able to be handled inside of the Wiki. That is, edits could be set up to go through an approval process before being published.
"Roland was staring at Tiffany, so nonplussed he was nearly minused."

*Philoticweb.net = Phoebe (Discord)

User avatar
Petrie
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:27 pm
Title: GD in Disguise

Postby Petrie » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:01 pm

slow down to a trickle like how everything non-Milagre currently is.
Pssh. Even Milagre has been pretty trickle-like lately; I'll try to pretend it's the season.
If we can come up with a design
By "we" do you mean everyone or just you awesome nerdfolk? (You guys are being completely awesome, by the way.) I hate that so much has to fall on you guys but I think part of the problem of asking most of us what we want is good web-design is like porn; it's hard for us to narrow down a definition but we know it when we see it. I wouldn't even know where to start in offering suggestions.
So raise your glass if you are wrong in all the right ways, all my underdogs.

User avatar
Wind Swept
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:09 pm
Title: Just Another Chris
First Joined: 22 Jan 2003

Postby Wind Swept » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:36 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of Designfolk with some amount of artistic inclination. Not to say that none of our Nerdfolk are also Designfolk.

It is interesting to note that while Nerdfolk gets picked up by my spell check, Designfolk is perfectly acceptable.
"Roland was staring at Tiffany, so nonplussed he was nearly minused."

*Philoticweb.net = Phoebe (Discord)

Jayelle
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4027
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm
Title: Queen Ducky
First Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Location: The Far East (of Canada)

Postby Jayelle » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:06 am

I'm not loving the Wiki idea because it feels like it could be work to keep up with damage-control.

I want to make sure that this site stays primarily Ender's Game (and all associated sequels and movie prospects), not about OSC and his controversial politics. I worry that a wiki might end up verging into that territory.

That being said, my heart and the height of my involvement is the forum. If people are willing to be committed in a real way to the rest of the site, all power to you.
Just make it not ugly.
One Duck to rule them all.
--------------------------------
It needs to be about 20% cooler.

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:52 am

*bump*

I know everyone's been pretty busy with finals and Christmas but has any progress been made on the new site in the past couple weeks?
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

User avatar
Bean_wannabe
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:30 am
Title: I spy with my Fishy Eye
First Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Location: England

Postby Bean_wannabe » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:09 am

If no-one wants to take on wiki damage control, I'll volunteer.
"You're going to burn in a very special level of Hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."

User avatar
Caspian
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:11 pm
Title: Ducky Consort
Contact:

Postby Caspian » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:33 am

Yes, but do you volunteer ... FOREVER?
It's not "noob" to rhyme with "boob". It's "newbie" to rhyme with "boobie".

User avatar
Bean_wannabe
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:30 am
Title: I spy with my Fishy Eye
First Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Location: England

Postby Bean_wannabe » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:37 am

I can volunteer for as long as I am alive - it all gets a bit metaphysical after that.
"You're going to burn in a very special level of Hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:59 am

Bean, the point Jan and I have been trying to make is that if we go with practically any database program besides wiki, we shouldn't need damage control. And it should look nicer or at the very least not like wiki with hopefully less work required to customize it. And yes, I saw where someone mentioned you can lock down wiki, but it still galls me that some of the techies seem to refuse to even acknowledge that there are other options besides The Almighty Wikimedia Foundation, praise and glory to their name! Come on guys, snap out of it. We've already been down this road years ago with my Mac fanaticism and it doesn't end well.

I can already see that we're going to need two separate admin teams, the one we already have for the forums and a new one of people interested in restoring and maintaining the database. Maybe a third select handful of super admins to watch over the rest of/whole site as well. Sure, there'll be some overlap between the groups, but not all of the forum mods have the time or interest to take care of the database as well (a certain Canaduck comes to mind) and at least one potential database admin has already expressed her disinterest in being a forum mod.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

ender1
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 690
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:22 am
Title: I know Photo-fu

Postby ender1 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:54 pm

A more elegant solution I was looking at earlier this month was a mod to the forum software that added the needed functionality and the admin stuff was nicely located in the admin panel. It would let you enable/disable and edit pages in WYSIWYG.

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:04 pm

Could you repeat that in English? Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. I know the acronym, but I'm not sure if you're talking about something for the forum or the database/rest of site.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

ender1
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 690
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:22 am
Title: I know Photo-fu

Postby ender1 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:07 pm

WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You Get.

The editor to create the pages is easy to use like Word. Highlight the word you want to italicize and it the italicize button instead of using any syntax.

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:12 pm

I know the acronym, but I'm not sure if you're talking about something for the forum or the database/rest of site.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

User avatar
Bean_wannabe
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:30 am
Title: I spy with my Fishy Eye
First Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Location: England

Postby Bean_wannabe » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:43 pm

In which case, I will change my offer: I will gladly do damage control/maintenance/whatever needs doing on whatever system we end up using, if and when we end up using it.

I think that covers all the bases...
"You're going to burn in a very special level of Hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."

Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 8017
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:40 pm

Thank you, B_W.

I have no idea who is doing what, willing to do what, giving up, etc. at this point but thank you for being willing to help.

Wil, are you done at this point?

Chris, are you still willing to mess around with a Wiki to make it not suck?

Will, I have no idea what you're even talking about. :D


And, thanks, Josh, for bumping this. I get kind of deflated sometimes by apathy.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
Wil
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1373
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:07 pm
Title: Not the mama!
Location: 36° 11' 39" N, 115° 13' 19" W

Postby Wil » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:11 pm

Done? Not really.

I've been messing around with some ideas for a few days now, since I'm done with school and am bored out of my mind. Nothing really striking me as worthy. That is the latest idea I've had, and that's as far as I've gotten as I've not really been able to find a way to tie things together. The font is a mess, I'm not really a fan of the sideways thing (makes me feel like I'm on my side), the coloring is god awful, no font works for "philotic web", etc.

In any case, if I ever do stumble upon a clean design idea that I like, I'll probably just write a quick, custom web interface that makes it easy for a person (or people) to add content.

Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 8017
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:22 pm

This is an off-the-record reaction but I saw the stars and all my brain could put out was "Oooooh," of the oooh-aaah line of thought. I happen to think that's very pretty and don't even terribly mind the sideways-ness of the text.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
Wil
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1373
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:07 pm
Title: Not the mama!
Location: 36° 11' 39" N, 115° 13' 19" W

Postby Wil » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:58 pm

Just thought I'd toss this in here because I like how it looked. *shrugs*

Image

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:32 pm

What's the font you used for Pweb and can I steal it to use on AIM?

Also, can we replace the scary forum lady with your dragon banner or would we need access to Ami's server for that?
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

User avatar
Bean_wannabe
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:30 am
Title: I spy with my Fishy Eye
First Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Location: England

Postby Bean_wannabe » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:01 am

Just a completely random suggestion, but would it be possible to make a network of all the members and their geographic locations, then use that as some sort of banner? The actual 'web' of PWeb?
"You're going to burn in a very special level of Hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:12 pm

Fris made a map a few years ago, but I don't think we should broadcast our real world locations quite that openly. It's a nice idea, though.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN

Postby Dr. Mobius » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:52 pm

Those of you who are used to going straight to Milagre on log-in might want to check the index for once. >.>
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

User avatar
Wil
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1373
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:07 pm
Title: Not the mama!
Location: 36° 11' 39" N, 115° 13' 19" W

Postby Wil » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:45 am

Just to ensure this doesn't get LOST!

CLICK HERE

User avatar
Petrie
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:27 pm
Title: GD in Disguise

Postby Petrie » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:44 pm

I guess I'll address this:
the new fresh site that we've kind of been almost working on
in here, with my thoughts on the matter, given it's less than a month from the original proposed move date.

I'm unaware of Jan's, Wil's, or Will's thoughts on the matter but in the three months since I last even looked at the new site, I have, to be completely honest, given up entirely on it.

1) There were creative differences and the people having them seemed to prefer to speak at each other, not to each other, and since it was handled mostly off board or via PM, there was really no way to try to mediate. Maybe that's typical of trying to build a site, I don't know. I don't really care; the behavior and attitudes were kind of disappointing and since I know nothing about that anyway, all I could do was pipe in when I thought something looked pretty or seemed to make more or less sense when explained to me.

2) I can't presume to speak for Wil but he has a job now and a female related hobby. I'm pretty sure he was only doing what he did out of boredom. That has probably changed.

3) I'm not a very good motivator. Out of an unfathomably deep frustration, I was wielding guilt like it was going out of style and I don't want to be that person; it's nasty and unfair to both me and the people targeted by it. I unequivocally cannot handle the levels of apathy I saw from most people. I will go to extremes to make things happen if I feel like I'm fighting for something worth having but this was not that.

4) Adam expressed, off board, to having the same feeling towards it that Rahl has. That made me angry, sad, you name it but I can't dismiss that.


In the end, if no one cares enough to step up and help without me resorting to yelling at them that they should care or care more, this place is probably just fine as it currently is. [/my 2 cents]
So raise your glass if you are wrong in all the right ways, all my underdogs.


Return to “Milagre Town Square”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amazon [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 53 guests