Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

[Rei]

I'm not entirely sure where we're going with forum software (or if we've decided or what), but my two bits would be that the phpbb aesthetic is a big part of what I dislike about pweb right now and unless it can be drastically changed from the look that I've seen at every phpbb forum that I've seen, I would really prefer something different.

It can.

In which case I would really like to see what that might look like. For example, can we get rid of that stupid animated "This thread has a lot of posts!" thingy?

As a side note, when it comes to the specific forums at the new site, I would be a fan of re-integrating the Religion and Science ones into Milagre. Especially the Science one, at least.

[ender1]

I managed to get a full backup, I hope, through the admin interface.

[Petrie]

Q: Will we be able to set original join dates for those who know?
A: Yep! I'll just do it manually, so if someone could supply a list of original join dates that would be great.

I'll e-mail what I have but I have to say, it's not much and I've been slacking on keeping info up to date since I started working. However, if people want to double check what I have, they can most likely find themselves in one of the lists by username. People who joined on 3.0 shouldn't need to worry (unless you want me to add you to the list for the warm fuzzies) and those who can't pinpoint exact Month-day-year should probably guess month and year and we can, if everyone is okay with it, set their join dates to the last day of the month they remember joining.

A-C
D-F
G-J
K-M
N-P
Q-S
T-W
X-Z


Sorry it's so small but I'm not redoing it; however, I'll clarify what I have if you can't read it. Columns should be, from left to right, username, name (blanked out) Ye Olde Pweb join date, 2.0, 3.0, alternate usernames.

[Wil]

The backup or the restore? Did you just try to restore the phpBB2 backup into phpBB3, or have you tried restoring to a phpBB2 installation, and then upgrading?

I couldn't get a full backup as the phpbb2 backup feature is a POS and the php request to build the backup times out before an entire database backup is created and send to me. Unless ender1 somehow managed to find a way around that (which I don't think he did at this point, but maybe), I had to "crawl" the forums to suck up user accounts and forum posts. As such, I have no passwords or PM's.

[mr_thebrain]

that list reminds me how few of us are still here from that first year. it'd be good if the other people from 2000 had their join dates. but even then i haven't seen many of them around either.

doesn't seem like it's been 10 years that i've been coming here....

[VelvetElvis]

Q: Will we be able to set original join dates for those who know?
A: Yep! I'll just do it manually, so if someone could supply a list of original join dates that would be great.

I'll e-mail what I have but I have to say, it's not much and I've been slacking on keeping info up to date since I started working. However, if people want to double check what I have, they can most likely find themselves in one of the lists by username. People who joined on 3.0 shouldn't need to worry (unless you want me to add you to the list for the warm fuzzies) and those who can't pinpoint exact Month-day-year should probably guess month and year and we can, if everyone is okay with it, set their join dates to the last day of the month they remember joining.

A-C
D-F
G-J
K-M
N-P
Q-S
T-W
X-Z


Sorry it's so small but I'm not redoing it; however, I'll clarify what I have if you can't read it. Columns should be, from left to right, username, name (blanked out) Ye Olde Pweb join date, 2.0, 3.0, alternate usernames.

For the record, my original join date was sept 10, 2004

ETA: It's odd to say "for the record" and really mean it.

[Wil]

What does everyone think? http://forums.philoticweb.org

[VelvetElvis]

So far, I approve.

[Eaquae Legit]

It looks weird. But that's me being change-o-phobic. It's nice.

But it looks like php. Is there an update to the SMF version we can compare with?

[Rei]

Definitely a step up. I'm glad to see that the popular threads don't have the animated thingy, but is it possible to make them all the same instead of having "normal topic", "hot topic", or "very hot topic"? If not, well at least they aren't bouncing at me.

[ETA] I'm with EL here. It looks like a much improved PHP, but still does look like PHP. I would also be very interested in seeing a comparable SMF.

[Wil]

This is SMF, I just applied a theme and customized it. I disabled hot and very hot topics.

[Rei]

That is definitely nicer, although it does make the column now moot.

[Wind Swept]

Just popping back in to voice my distaste for a Wiki frontend. Bleh.

[mr_thebrain]

agreed. down with wiki

[Dobie]

What does everyone think? http://forums.philoticweb.org

There's a guy there with the same name as me. It's like entering a parallel universe and meeting an unfunny version of myself.

[Dr. Mobius]

Gray is a bit hard on the eyes, soften it by shifting the color palette slightly blue like on here and 2.0.

Replace the stupid profile/link/etc icons with buttons that match the reply/quote/new topic/new poll ones.

It seems to be stretching small and/or rectangular avatars into a standard-sized square, fix that. (Steph's avatar in particular looks a bit bloated on the new board although the source image is the correct size and shape, if you need a point of reference.) Also, increase the max avatar size from 65x65 to 100x100.

ETA: Get rid of that wiki nonsense on the front page and replace it with a blank placeholder for now with a relevant quote from CotM about Jane trying to find a new home when the ansibles were shut down (unless Kelly knows of some legal reason why we can't use a quote from a book on a fansite about said book, even temporarily, in which case scrap that idea).

We need to stay focused and get what we have (the board) situated first. We can worry about how to replace what was lost (the rest of the site) in the 2.0 crash a little later on once we've got the new board the way we like it.

[ender1]

+1 for the wiki

[Young Val]

A girl goes away for a week and a revolution begins! Clearly I have some catching up to do!

[Rei]

ETA: Get rid of that wiki nonsense on the front page and replace it with a blank placeholder for now with a relevant quote from CotM about Jane trying to find a new home when the ansibles were shut down (unless Kelly knows of some legal reason why we can't use a quote from a book on a fansite about said book, even temporarily, in which case scrap that idea).

We need to stay focused and get what we have (the board) situated first. We can worry about how to replace what was lost (the rest of the site) in the 2.0 crash a little later on once we've got the new board the way we like it.

I'll stand by this. Assuming a quote is acceptable, I will try to find one this evening.

[Young Val]

The quote should be fine if you keep it brief--under 200 words--and cite it properly. You can also email Card and formally request permission. It is highly, highly unlikely that he would direct you to official channels and request a permissions fee for such an incidental and non-profit use. Given his history with the board, it would be polite to ask, even if the quote could be considered fair use.

If and when he is asked, we should have the exact quote ready with a potential credit line. He may ask that we adjust the credit/copyright information, and we should respect his wishes in that instance.


ETA: I should also say that this is my super formal, "professional" answer, and that I feel responsible to give the accurate (though perhaps tedious) answer. I really, really, really don't think this will be an issue.

[Eaquae Legit]

Thanks, Kelly!

Mark me down as disliking the wiki format as well. Blah. But I like the idea of a quote as placeholder.

[Wil]

I'm really having trouble understanding everyones dislike of then wiki format. Using a content management system will just complicate things and duplicate functionality already provided by the forums themselves. If the entire idea of philotic web is to be a website dedicated toward providing an all-in-one source for all things Ender's Game, a wiki pretty much meets this functionality perfectly by making it possible to post content when and where it needs to be in a way that allows for organization in a simple format that anyone can learn. It gives a wide range of options toward the formatting of pages, it allows for there to be dedicated editors and doesn't have to be an 'anyone can edit everything' format, and because it's a wiki it's highly accessible to everyone that visits. On top of all this, it will be SIMPLE. You log in once - there won't be any duplicate login or registration. Once you're logged in, you can access both the forums and the wiki without issue.

In my eyes, there are really only three options, and a CMS (like WordPress, Joomla, Momba, Drupal) isn't one of them. Either we use a wiki, someone puts together a custom system that people will agree with more or finds a more article-centric content management system that is ONLY for articles, or we go back to the static HTML format where pages are added manually.

Also, I've been told the design is unprofessional, not simple enough, and looks too much like a forum. If others feel this way, please speak up.

Finally, GD/Petrie is having trouble loading the forums. They load, but very slowly. She has tried both at home and on computers at work. I've tried on my computer, my phone, and an iPad on another wireless network, and it loads perfectly fine and fast for me. Is anyone else having these issues?

[Petrie]

a revolution begins!

Will there be punch and pie?


Seriously, now, I'm having a hard time explaining why I don't care much for the Wiki look. To me, it just doesn't look like it involves any effort. That's not the same thing as looking simple. I think a good website is easily navigated and clean looking; not so much content that you get lost looking at it. The Wiki feels like this current forum does to me, like we just couldn't be bothered to put in a little elbow grease to come up with something personal and unique. Funny coming from me, since I can't do any of the real work required to make anything but there it is.

As for the forum, I think it's coming along nicely. Good call on the color change, Josh. It looks better and I would have never thought to try changing that. I hear we have spoiler tags, something I really liked the idea of having. I like the banner quite a bit.

I think Josh is correct about the little buttons for profile, website, IM, etc. They are a bit...unattractive. The stars crack me up but they're not quite the pretty ones we used to have.

Oh, just tried getting into Milagre and it loaded much faster this time. Well under the 20-30 seconds it was taking before. In fact, I just timed it at about 6 seconds.

Thanks, again, for all the time you've put in so far.

[Syphon the Sun]

1. I've tried from home (desktop & laptop) and from my office (laptop). .org loads at least as quickly as .net does from both machines and both locations.

2. I have no problem with a wiki, particularly if we have designated editors. It's simple, user-friendly, and *gasp* can be updated much easier and more frequently than our old system (static html).

3. If everyone wants to hate on the wiki-as-a-front-page, though, but do not mind the wiki-as-a-feature, maybe we could make a static landing page, integrated with the rest of the site? We used to have a "News" page as the default, but, honestly, how often was it ever updated? A couple times a year? And almost always after the news hit the forum.

[Mich]

I thought I'd chime in that I've been assuming people just don't like the look of the wiki. Most of the complaints have been "don't like it as a front page" or "don't like the format." So I don't think anyone's hating on the usefulness and easy-editable-ness, especially if, as you said, it's really one of the best options.

The only complaints I would have are CSS or styling related (like the looks of the buttons and so forth), which aren't actually a big complaint in my world. I'm an extremely relaxed and flexible guy, and am happy as long as I can keep talking to everyone here.

[Wil]

I'm assuming everyone means the very top buttons that say: Home, Forum, Chat, Help, Search, etc. If so, yeah, those are ugly. They can be changed.

[Petrie]

I have no problem with a wiki, particularly if we have designated editors. It's simple, user-friendly, and *gasp* can be updated much easier and more frequently than our old system (static html).

Here is my problem and I don't know how to get around it without creating a s***** of work for people who, I don't think, really give a s*** about creating a site.

The Wiki looks sterile to me, lacking in personality and aesthetic appeal. Simple updating is great, as is the user-friendly aspect but I do not like the listing of "articles" versus buttons or something for pages. Content is absolutely important, no arguments from me on that front, but so is getting my attention in the first place. If I stumbled on a Wiki page 7 years ago, I'd see boring text and I'd move on to a more visually appealing EG site. I need a draw, I need to see a human touch has been put on the delivery of that information, not so institutional and academic, and in theory, if a look is done correctly, the information can then take center stage and be a work in progress, always aiming for better, more, what have you.

The forum is most important to me personally but I'm trying to think like a person who has no personal connection to Pweb, like the people coming in, looking for EG stuff who we hope will stick around and become friends. I get that most of you don't care one bit about anything outside of Milagre, don't care much for OSC anymore, probably don't have the same love for EG (at least not in the same way), just want to hang out with friends, and so you're going to focus on getting the look and feel of the forum right first. That's good. We should take care of one part at a time. But I'd certainly appreciate thoughts on how to handle the rest of the site beyond saying yay or nay to Wiki, so that once everyone is okay with the forum, we can make some progress on the rest.

If possible, for those who care to help shape things if you're serious about this move happening, start commenting/offering suggestions that can be implemented on both parts. Even if you don't know if things can be done, throw ideas out.

We don't have to move but it sure would be nice to have a way and something to offer to help entice newbies into sticking around.

[VelvetElvis]

I would like to make a request for the new forum. Can I not be eaten by a bear anymore?

[mr_thebrain]

static pages get such a bad rep and i don't know why. you can have dynamic content on a static page, they're easy as hell to maintain and they can be pretty as s*** if someone puts a little time and effort into making them that way. and considering the nature of this website i don't see as we'll be making a whole lot of changes to is as time goes by. maybe a small update on a new book here, or new movie news there.

wiki is for a lazy webmaster, or a site that's going to change fairly regularly. and having only a couple dedicated wiki updaters defeats the concept of having a wiki in the first place. wiki is dumb. sorry.

[Oliver Dale]

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care, but I will probably not be making the move to the new forum. To be perfectly honest, I only return to this one out of a stringing sense of loyalty and the transfer to a new domain feels like the severing of that strand. As always, however, I wish you all the best of luck and hope the new site does you wonders!

In case anyone needs to reach me, please email at oliver.hanson AT gmail.com or, of course, find me on facebook (Oliver Dale Hanson).

Cheers!

[Eaquae Legit]

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care, but I will probably not be making the move to the new forum. To be perfectly honest, I only return to this one out of a stringing sense of loyalty and the transfer to a new domain feels like the severing of that strand. As always, however, I wish you all the best of luck and hope the new site does you wonders!

In case anyone needs to reach me, please email at oliver.hanson AT gmail.com or, of course, find me on facebook (Oliver Dale Hanson).

Cheers!

[Luet]

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care

How little you know us!

[steph]

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care, but I will probably not be making the move to the new forum. To be perfectly honest, I only return to this one out of a stringing sense of loyalty and the transfer to a new domain feels like the severing of that strand. As always, however, I wish you all the best of luck and hope the new site does you wonders!

In case anyone needs to reach me, please email at oliver.hanson AT gmail.com or, of course, find me on facebook (Oliver Dale Hanson).

Cheers!

I don't know that I want a forum without you, however infrequent you post. You're part of the reason I was ever here, instead of just passing through. And you're one of the reasons I ever came back after being absent.

[Eaquae Legit]

I forgot - I don't like the wiki look because it is so generic. It looks like everything else, and it doesn't really encourage community. When I come across a wiki site, I don't even think to look for a forum or actual people. It also looks like no one cares enough to make an "actual" site.

None of these things may be true (we sure have a community, and wiki information is just as good as other information), but that's how it feels.

[Rei]

I suspect that most (all?) here won't care

How little you know us!

Indeed! Whether you come with or do not, we will fondly remember you!