Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!

New forum software:

phpbb
8
42%
SMF
11
58%
 
Total votes: 19

User avatar
Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 7840
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:07 am

For the record:

I was pissed this morning because, as Syphon did a better job getting across, we were promised that there would be more transparency, that decisions would be explained, and that things would continue to be a group effort. I did not think this, and Jan being "in charge" had to be mutually exclusive and that is why I agreed to and endorsed that arrangement.

When I wake up and the first thing I see is "Your opinion, that you put forth, is missing my decision," I get pissed off. If she thinks Josh, someone who has been very disrespectful to the board, is someone who should be mod, she can throw his name in the hat or even justify his being placed there in the first place.

How has he been disrespectful if he's just been joking? The stories of mod abuse I've heard and witnessed make that a non-funny issue. It's like saying, "You can't trust me! haha, JK JK"

Jan telling me I missed him was like telling me "Your opinion is only worth hearing when I agree with it." I know enough and pay enough attention to generally not forget things or miss things. Don't presume to tell me what I did or did not leave out of my opinion.

There was no discussion, no "Why do you feel so strongly against him being a mod that you would not choose him?" My opinion was dismissed right out the gate.

Following Nomi and Syphon's calling this into question, when it appeared that people were moving away from single person in charge to group in charge, it became "I want Josh, I'm keeping Josh." Again, no discussion.

Not only a dismission of their opinion, now she is directly going against what Ali said to us. But no one sees this as dismission.

Clearly it's all a joke or let's just blindly trust this person who has issues with communicating the role he has played since becoming a mod. Oh, wait.He told us. He cleared bots.

But hey, Alea, you're taking this too seriously now. No one is dismissing anything yet!

I have gone out of my way to get and keep people involved, I've asked and listened to opinions, I've provided them, and prodded people to keep things moving.

I have spent hours trying to help the board. HOURS. I've tried to make people feel welcome and to feel appreciated. What do I get?

I get called elitist.
I have my ideas called a waste of time.
I have my opinions corrected.
I have been called petty.
I have been told I didn't try hard enough to help.

I do not want control. I want to know that people aren't going to get ignored, even if their opinions aren't popular, because they are not a mod. I want opinions and input to count.


If that slows things down some, trying to take them into account, so the f*** what? It's been 5 years of things falling to s***. Why rush it? Anyone who cares is going to stick it out for however long it takes.

Caspian's attitude hurt me on a level I don't think any of you could understand. That anyone thinks that level of hurt is going to disappear over a few hours or days does not know me well.

I wouldn't have changed my position but I would have admitted to overreacting or approaching things wrong if it weren't for Caspian. I would have apologized for the unnecessary tension on my part. Because I want what is best for the board.

His post was insulting, I don't appreciate it, and I don't have to have it be a problem. My efforts not good enough? Fine. Let me back off and let the people who are clearly better suited get the job done. Clearly, it's not about recognition, it's about getting the job done. *jab from Josh*

I understood some of this has been addressed. It is just my personal opinion that the reasons behind the decisions aren't satisfactory. It is also my opinion that it is too late to call into question Josh's involvement. Clearly he's been part of the changes on the upgrade, which clearly gives him a way to say he has now been useful.

I am petty, though. If my efforts aren't good enough, I'm sorry, any changes that involve information I have is not getting handed over. Let Josh or anyone else whose efforts count for more than mine go through Wayback and grab whatever. Let them begin to put the time into it I have. I am sorry if that makes me any of the above things I've been accused of for wanting it recognized that I've poured a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this place.

Thank you, anyone who gave me the vote of confidence, but at this time, I'm going to continue with the obligations I've made for myself and will otherwise be absent from the board. I have every faith you'll turn the board into something worthwhile and my sincerest gratitude to all who've put forth effort to date.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
Luet
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4445
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 pm
Title: Bird Nerd
First Joined: 01 Jul 2000
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Luet » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:29 am

Okay, my number one question is how the heck can we get Alea back?
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

User avatar
Jayelle
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4026
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm
Title: Queen Ducky
First Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Location: The Far East (of Canada)

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Jayelle » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:17 am

In the interest of transparency, I have contacted Alea privately to apologize for hurt feelings, but I am going to post and apology and explanation here as well.

I did not intend to make anyone upset. I feel like so much of this stems from a misunderstanding and some bad phrasing. I wish I could go back and phrase things differently. Mainly to say " I feel like Josh should be included in that list" rather then "You're missing Josh from that list". The former was how I meant it to come across.

I have to say that going into this, I had very little idea there was so much opposition to who had been given admin powers in the past. Maybe I shouldn't have been so blindsided, but I was.

I do not want to be, and I do not intend to be dismissive of others and their opinions. I have really liked how collectively we've made decisions on pweb recently. I do feel, however, that there needs to be a person who says "okay...go!" and, quite frankly, that was Alea for much of the past month or so, but she does not wish to be in charge. I stepped into this leadership role because I felt like others didn't want to and because I felt I could make a full commitment to stick around, unlike Amka. I felt like I had the majority of support from everyone (and I still do).

I absolutely admit that I acted a bit rashly in saying "here's your 'new' mod." I was just a bit caught up in having this upgraded board and I was feeling like finally I could make the changes I'd been hoping to make for the past 2 years.

I'd like to just move on from this and continue our excitement about the new board. I want to figure out a moderator situation soon, but I'm willing to wait until people are feeling a bit more calm and agreeable.




PS. I am also dealing with my baby having the flu today, and a lack of sleep over both that and this pweb stress, so please excuse any delays and incoherence in my replies today.

User avatar
GS
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:55 am
Title: Ganon's Bane
First Joined: 02 Feb 1922

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby GS » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:44 am

Getting away from the mod talk for now and having been absent for most of the week that led to this upgrade, is it just that? An upgrade? Or is someone besides Ami taking on the hosting? If it is the latter, I think that one of the next things that should be done is to set up a pay pal account for donations. If not, then carry on.
I don't want to do things. I want to not do things.

User avatar
Dr. Mobius
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 2517
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
Title: Stayin' Alive
First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Dr. Mobius » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:51 am

As far as I'm aware, the site is still on Ami's server. She just gave us the ftp access we needed to make the upgrades.
The enemy's fly is down.
Image

User avatar
Wind Swept
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:09 pm
Title: Just Another Chris
First Joined: 22 Jan 2003

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Wind Swept » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:54 am

Getting away from the mod talk for now and having been absent for most of the week that led to this upgrade, is it just that? An upgrade? Or is someone besides Ami taking on the hosting? If it is the latter, I think that one of the next things that should be done is to set up a pay pal account for donations. If not, then carry on.
I think the idea was, "We all agree we should upgrade the forum software, let's at least do that right now."

My opinion remains that the hosting Ami is providing is free and reliable. The only major issues we've had over the years are related to the forum software and Ami's inattentiveness to the board. I don't see a reason to rush off to a new server right away.

That said, I do think we should get control of the domain name. So, if we find we do need/want to move, we can. And we can do other stuff with it, like set up an admin@philoticweb.net email address to deliver all the notification emails the forum sends.

ETA: I take it back. One reason to move: The versions of MySQL and PHP installed on this server are both quite outdated. The phpBB Admin Panel does have a warning posted that future versions will not support this version of PHP.
"Roland was staring at Tiffany, so nonplussed he was nearly minused."

*Philoticweb.net = Phoebe

User avatar
Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 7840
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:51 pm

First, because apparently it needs to be said time and time again, none of my anger was about anyone on this board as an individual person. There was quite a bit of it directed at decisions that are nearly a year old at this point, decisions that were allowed to compound and get worse, decisions that we were told to hold off on getting upset about if our concerns were acknowledged at all. I like Josh, I like Will, I like Jan, I like Ali, I like Adam. I consider them all friends (met one, going to meet on, going to be in one’s wedding!, think the other two are pretty darn swell) and if the feeling isn’t mutual because of any of this, I’ll be hurt but I will also understand. With that said, there was a major breakdown in communication with regards to this decision that affects us all. I am surprised at any feelings of being blindsided by disapproval of this choice.

Here is how I remember things happening. There is a chance I’m misremembering, made assumptions, and chose the wrong times to keep quiet, and that might have something to do with the problems.

When the decision was made that we wanted to try something since Ami wasn’t being cooperative, I did state I did not want to be a mod. At that point, I felt it would be a bad decision to ask me to monitor any potential behavioral issues on the board; I still think that is the case. Being a mod then meant something a bit different than how the term is being used currently. But I also stated, probably not clearly, that I wanted to and would help in every other aspect of bringing this place back to its former glory.

Discussions kind of died on the board, and overnight, with no indication as to what they would be doing (I assumed it was to do with the move, not with modding/monitoring behavior) or why they were chosen, Will and Josh are promoted. They were told they were not mods in the traditional sense; now wait, didn’t I just say I would help if it didn’t include that part? Again, probably not clearly, my fault, so I didn’t press this. I could still help and did and didn’t need any official position to do so. But as has been stated, some reasoning as to how they were chosen and how it would be handled later would have gone a long way. That it took a year, more or less, to get this explanation is crazy to me.

(Side but related note, that anyone thinks Jan didn’t deserve to be a mod –I don’t think I ever said that but sincere, sincere apologies if I did or implied it- when Ami appointed her is crap. Not Caspian saying this happened at all, I believe that well enough, but that it did happen at all. Ami’s method was B.S., as it read as “First come, first served” and not as a thought out choice…but, that’s the way Ami was because she lost interest and didn’t care about the effects her decisions would make. We lucked out. We got good people. Jan is good at this, I trust her to stick around, and I usually trust her judgment. This argument is not a case of theoretically supporting her and actually not, it is merely bringing attention back to a decision we’ve never agreed on, that got ignored. Because... ->)

As happens so often on this board when real conflict occurs, it is encouraged that the issue be swept under the rug to be dealt with later. By mods and non-mods alike, myself included. Always said with the intention that it give people time to cool off but then things just drop, meaning they will rear their ugly heads again and usually worse.

I decided to keep busy with helping Wil as best as I could while being completely frustrated and flustered at what seemed like apathy from the community at large (people have done their best to show this was not the case, I appreciate those efforts enormously). This was not helped along by what I thought was unreasonable behavior on the parts of the people I thought were promoted to aid in the creation of and transition to a new site. Instead of helping (doing their jobs, if this is part of why they were given admin access) and being willing to do some give and take, they obstructed our attempts at progress. How?

Ex: They had an issue with the design and stated they were technical in nature. “The Earth is too big to see parts of the screen without scrolling. I don’t like the design.” The first part, Wil attempted to address and with the help of Syphon and a few others, they determined that on multiple machines, this was not the issue it seemed to be on Will’s, and only Will’s, computer. They persisted in complaining about the design but when pressed for further input on what they wanted to see if not that, and when presented with more, completely different options, they would clam up or, worse to me, tell me they “[didn’t] care, do whatever.” Or they’d run to Jan with their complaints, where Wil was told to change his behavior and start listening more. When we did “whatever,” which is the “direction” we were given from Josh and Will, the complaints started again.

Then it comes out, when I’m ready to throw in the towel from lack of cooperation and lack of input, that Will and Josh had been planning things all along. Again with the lack of disclosure from people in a position of authority. This, actually, I consider to be the larger issue.
They didn’t want to help the person who was doing the majority of the hard work; they felt it would be better to go behind his, and to a lesser degree, my back and do their own thing, claiming we wouldn’t listen. Meanwhile, every decision Wil and I made, with or without help, was put on the board for all to see, with reasoning so people may understand and so objections could be made. We never hid anything. It was selfish and wrong of Josh and Will to act as they did, I firmly believe that. I made no secret of the fact that this bothered me. All I could determine, moreso after Will redirected whatever it was to keep Wil’s work from being viewable, was that it was personal. THAT was selfish and wrong. And petty, since that’s a word that wants to keep cropping up.

The overall disrespect Wil got from numerous people, not just Josh and Will, is wrong. Most of that probably happened off the board but it happened, all the same. He put a lot of time and energy he didn’t need to put into the board, despite the fact that people had treated him rather poorly on the whole.

With all that happening, pepper in Josh’s jokes about mod abuse and now someone I could have supported at one point, with a little more disclosure, is now on my list of people I do not trust with that responsibility and I think anyone who sat back and watched, thereby condoning all those behaviors, is wrong to think I should have included him when I made my suggestions more recently. That blame, I believe, falls on more than the mods and while I understand it is unpleasant to step into a conflict, I, at the very least, expected more people to pause and ask themselves, “Are these behaviors we should tolerate from people who have power on this board? Do we really want people to have any authority if they fail to cooperate, fail to communicate, and take very real abuses against members as a matter of humor?” I’m sorry. Anyone who feels I overreact to jokes where trust and respect for fellow members is taken so lightly, I will have to respectfully disagree.

But you know, Will did the respectable thing and stepped down. That was not necessary and even though I didn’t back him being a mod, had he apologized to the board and Wil, I would have. He hasn’t exactly done nothing and I was one of the most vocal people giving him thanks for what I was aware of him doing.

Josh, on the other hand, not only didn’t apologize (“It’s just a joke, lighten up.” Please see article on gaslighting in girly thread) to anyone that I can recall, he turned around and, without checking facts, started asserting his authority over my suggestion to clean things up. It was not "As a fellow member, I disagree." It was "As the person with the power to make changes happen, I disagree." I asked a techie months ago how hard or impossible it would be to do a cleanup and I asked again the day of the post. That left his argument looking pretty frail to me and he was ignoring the wishes or many people. No whys or hows it was elitist, just that it was. I don’t think it’s fair to expect no objections on opinions I have but I will expect some justification. If he gets to stay, fine, I can live with it; let’s just be clear from here on what the criteria is for people being handed powers because as I said before, being willing and having the access to clean up bots is not the whole, accurate picture of the modship of either of those two.

Should I have said all this better than I did yesterday? Absolutely. Do I owe any number of apologies to people? Most definitely (and I will issue them). Do I feel I’m owed apologies? No, I’ve received some rather key apologies for me personally, but I do think the board (and Wil if he hasn’t gotten them) are owed some by the two gentlemen I’ve mentioned throughout. If they feel differently, that is on them, I won’t wait for them and it won’t do anything anyway, except perhaps, to restore my faith in their being appointed as mods in the first place.

Jan, I am terribly sorry for allowing my frustration to get the better of me. It was unfair of me to misinterpret and jump to conclusions. It was also wrong and unfair to let you think that it was a lack of faith in your abilities overall. The “glorified tiebreaker” comment was out of line but I did not intend for it to cause hurt any more than anything else I said may have or did. I actually don't know what exactly I meant, other than, "I hope you are listening to people." Those look very different, don't they? I'm sorry. I would also to like to apologize for possibly failing to address how else I may have wronged you. You did not ruin Pweb; please don’t let my hurt feelings and stupidity make you think any such thing.

Caspian, I apologize for any perceived harm to Jan. I do not want you to go and it meant a lot to see your post. I am also sorry I was tacky in how I let you know I was hurt. To be clear, if I wasn’t already, it bothered me that Nomi’s posts and behavior, someone who was saying things I agreed entirely with (minus the part she took back herself) and thus my posts and behaviors, was being called into question much more than the biggest offenders (as far as I’m concerned). She has not violated trust, she has been cooperative on the whole. I applaud her and respect her immensely for having the courage to stand up and say something. I do appreciate you apologizing to her as well; it likewise means a lot.

Kirsten, I apologize for also reacting too strongly to your attempts at getting clarification. You did not fan flames that I wasn’t already stoking myself. I also apologize for my part in anyone thinking I was personally attacking mods and applaud protective behavior.

To the people who were made sad or felt left out, you have every last piece of apologetic feelings I have, every single last one. Even more so for the immaturity of my last post because, make no mistake about it, it was immature, it was wrong, and I am deeply ashamed of my behavior, even if I think it was based in true and real concern. It was uncalled for and the best excuse I have, and I'm not claiming it's a good one, is that it was out of extreme hurt and it is by and large why I preferred to not take top leadership; I know I can be stupid.


Now, to be honest, I’d love to jump back into things but that would feel forced, given I still feel like s***. It was not an exaggeration to say it was a deep and lasting hurt and it is one I am desperately trying to get over -knowing even when it was said it was out of anger and not meant, and apparently not even directed at me specifically but still applies- but I don’t know how to do that, even with apologies that I appreciate more than I can say and in as much a fashion as I can, accept. This is my shortcoming, no one else's. I don't want to say I was irrational, I do want to say I handled things extremely poorly. Maybe all it will take is zero getting back from his current endeavors and letting me talk to him in real time, about this, that, or otherwise; he tends to do my troubled mind some good. I just know I’m sad.

But, carry on. You’re doing good and fun things and at the very least, I’ll be here at least enough to finish up the last few Spotlights (assuming Wil doesn’t kill me for the latest one I handed over...What? 1 hr and 49 mins is reasonable...right?) and the monthly picture thread.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
Ela
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:42 pm
Title: Get off my lawn!!
First Joined: 0- 9-2000
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Ela » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:57 pm

I'm going to make a general request, not aimed at any one person in particular but only because the comments over a period of time have been on getting on my nerves:

Can we please stop dissing Ami?

She has paid for this board to exist for years. I am sure she was not deliberately ignoring requests. Like all of us, she has many demands on her time and probably other things that were higher priority and more pressing than the Pweb forum. Also, I know from personal experience how emails and requests can move to the back burner or be overlooked if you have a large influx of email.

I'd like us to cut her some slack, please.

That's all I have to say.
Pweb member since 2000

Noodle
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:18 pm
Title: Pastamancer Tony
First Joined: 06 Feb 1916
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Noodle » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 pm

Can we please stop dissing Ami?... I'd like us to cut her some slack, please.
I agree with this. She's absent, and she didn't do a ton to help us with the upgrade, but she is doing something. We have a site, paid for by her, and now we have much more control over that site. She jumped in to help the site when it crashed, both times, even when she wasn't really active for the second crash. I'm grateful for what she's done for us, and happy that we have this place.
Co-Founder of the Canadian Alliance

I'm known as Tony on the internet.

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby starlooker » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:02 pm

Okay.

Point 1: Alea, apology accepted, and appreciated very much. Also, I was very, very upset when I read your post-before-last last night, and I was scared it would never get resolved, and I really am grateful that you came back to clarify and discuss. That would have been incredibly difficult for me to do, and it impresses me.

Point 2: I appreciate the disclosure of your memories of how things went off board, and it does help me to a degree understand where you were coming from. At the same time, there is part of me that feels more confused than ever, and a little headachey. Because -- I just feel like so much of what happened yesterday was based on miscommunication and bad phrasing and emotions running high, and I can't help but wonder how much of the behind the scenes stuff included that. (This is NOT any kind of statement of accusation or who did what misunderstanding or miscommunicating or whatever, because I wasn't there and can't begin to make heads or tails of any of it, other than it's nice to have a firmer grasp of what some people saw happening and are feeling.) It's just hard for me to see malicious intent from anybody. And then I get headachey again.

Point 3: You have to at least lurk around the baby thread until Little Bit arrives. It meant a lot to me when you said you always read it. So, just FYI. Well, okay, you don't HAVE to do anything, but just throwing another something out there, your personal timeline-wise. (Obviously, I'd prefer if things eventually become more un-forced feeling again, and the issue doesn't come up.)

Point 4: Different topic. Honestly, I don't think people are "dissing" Ami so much as expressing some very real frustration and what her lack of interest in the site has meant to Pweb. I understand she had good reasons for it. I am SO grateful to her for founding the site and continuing to pay for it when her interest/ability to attend to it waned. I'm really thankful she's been helping us of late by giving us access and everything. And, yet, I don't think people have to put her on a pedestal and not reference her absence from the site. Mod-making WAS first-come first-serve last time. We did beg her for months to help us with this with little response and lack of follow-through on what response there was. I don't think gratitude for what she's done has to mean not expressing frustration at other behaviors.

Point 5: We did move it. We can make it better. (Reference to the thread title.) I do think we're moving towards a positive, collaborative method of granting authority and decision making. I'm -- stunned, I think, by all of this. And I am aching for the hurt and tears it has caused, because I love this community so much. But, too, I'm enjoying being on the board today, it feels like an upgrade, and I do hope things will progress in a more positive way from here.
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

VelvetElvis
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:22 am
Title: is real!
First Joined: 0- 9-2004

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby VelvetElvis » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:45 pm

It feels like it used to back before the '06 crash.
Yay, I'm a llama again!

User avatar
Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 7840
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:07 pm

I just feel like so much of what happened yesterday was based on miscommunication and bad phrasing and emotions running high, and I can't help but wonder how much of the behind the scenes stuff included that.
Fair enough, if I'm understanding that correctly. If I ever implied that the blame lay solely in others' actions and words, and that a good part of it wasn't miscommunication, that is incorrect. I have a good chunk of blame to lay claim to and same for miscommunication.

I feel rather s***** because I know Jan meant no harm and now we have people throwing up, losing sleep, fighting with their SOs, and speaking for myself here, spending the better part of the past 24 hours (when I wasn't getting the little bit of sleep I did) in various states of snot-wiping and tear-drying. That my attempts at being honest seemed to make things worse, well, I can't say I'm convinced my sticking around and trying to feel less forced is for the best of the group. I don't know how to right things and it feels like I can't catch a break about other things, even when I'm trying. That's not dramatics. It's me wanting to not cause any more harm than I already have.

I don't dislike Ami as a person. I am grateful for the creation of this place. I do think she made poor choices and for a few months or maybe even a year or two of life getting in the way, I can easily look past and say "Ain't no big thang" but for 5 years of neglect, I am going to be frustrated and I think rightly so. Things did get turned over. I am grateful for that, despite thinking it should have been sooner. I was never disingenuous with my appreciation to her in the PMs I posted or the emails I sent thanking her for the file she sent (forwarded that to Chris, Wil, and Jan since I could easily find their email at the time).

If anything I have said just now has caused further annoyance, hurt, or feelings of bad will, you can let me know privately or publicly and I will grovel at your feet for being a piece of s*** communicator who also just wants to be honest and sometimes fails, despite best intentions.

You have to at least lurk around the baby thread until Little Bit arrives.
Consider it done.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
Luet
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4445
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 pm
Title: Bird Nerd
First Joined: 01 Jul 2000
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Luet » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:22 pm

Your sticking around is *always* better for the group. And that goes for everyone. These are just growing pains. Seriously.
Last edited by Luet on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

User avatar
Jayelle
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4026
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm
Title: Queen Ducky
First Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Location: The Far East (of Canada)

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Jayelle » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:46 pm

Your sticking around is *always* better of the group. And that goes for everyone. These are just growing pains. Seriously.

Yes.
One Duck to rule them all.
--------------------------------
It needs to be about 20% cooler.

User avatar
steph
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:36 pm
Title: Rocky Mountain Mama
First Joined: 0- 8-2000
Location: colorado, baby!
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby steph » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:46 pm

Your sticking around is *always* better of the group. And that goes for everyone. These are just growing pains. Seriously.

Yes.
True.
"When I look back on my ordinary, ordinary life,
I see so much magic, though I missed it at the time." - Jamie Cullum

User avatar
Jebus
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:53 pm
Title: Lord and Saviour
First Joined: 07 Nov 2001

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Jebus » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:48 pm

Why did the orange stop rolling down the hill?

Because it ran out of juice

User avatar
locke
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 3040
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby locke » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:26 am

I haven't posted in this thread before, and it's not because of lack of interest. I've read every post in this thread (which isn't unusual, I read every post here, except the Doctor Who ones), some of the posts I've read multiple times, or its taken me multiple times to actually read the complete posts without becoming so upset that I just have to leave the thread (that is fairly unusual). I've never been able to formulate a post for this thread, and have just 'x'ed the window unposted a dozen times at least.

It has taken me months to come to the terms with severing pweb from Ami. Months to not be really, really upset about it. So I understand completely some of the pain and hurt that has happened the past few days, and by extension, over the past year as this discussion, thread, and idea of moving pweb to the next phase of its life has taken shape.

And Pweb is moving to a new phase of its life. This is 4.0. We are the first internet generation, we're making up the rules as we go along, and the world wide web is just about to go off to college and pweb will be a teenager in a few years. Which sort of makes the parent in me wonder what's going to happen when pweb turns thirteen and starts becoming interested in other websites and wanting to show off fast connections and sexy new skins and suchlike

Mistakes have been made in this whole process and progress has taken place in fits and starts. Organizing any number of independent people with wildly different schedules and attentiveness to the community is always difficult; almost nothing has been smooth, sometimes decisions have been made just because a decision needed to be made (or one never would be) and those decisions did not work out, were ill considered or were poorly communicated to the whole community. Sometimes decisions have worked out really well and we've succeeded in our part as leaders of this community who are trying hard to make it better. But it's worth pointing out that if some unpopular decisions hadn't been made, we might still be years away from the point we are at today. And it is equally possible that some unpopular decisions created and caused the delays getting to this point.

We are making progress and moving forward. We have a beautiful new forum with a host of long desired options. There's an array of features available that are really exciting, especially this:

:stamp:

We moderators have more tools to hand than ever before, and we have some wonderful volunteer techs that have demonstrated how much we should all appreciate their tech skills.

I have to thank all of pweb though. Pwebbers are such special and wonderful people that we care immensely about each other and about our little corner of the internet. You all make this place what it is. That it is worth fighting for, worth standing up and voicing an opinion that is unpopular, that may be taken the wrong way. You are all such wonderful people that it is personally devastating to many of us when we disagree and fight. I am so glad that pweb makes me care so much, and it is my sincerest wish that those who have been hurt in this process can return to posting, that apologies and forgiveness from all positions to all the other positions are offered. We must make amends Pwebbers, you are all too wonderful to lose any of you.

There's a lot to be excited for Pwebbers. I think 4.0 Pweb is going to be the best pweb yet.

Adam
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

User avatar
steph
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:36 pm
Title: Rocky Mountain Mama
First Joined: 0- 8-2000
Location: colorado, baby!
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby steph » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:24 am

I feel like giving a standing ovation after that post. Very well said, Adam.
"When I look back on my ordinary, ordinary life,
I see so much magic, though I missed it at the time." - Jamie Cullum

Noodle
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:18 pm
Title: Pastamancer Tony
First Joined: 06 Feb 1916
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Noodle » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:39 am

I agree, that was a very well written post!

I also agree that this is PWeb 4.0. We didn't have a crash, but the official change in leadership and direction is a big enough change that we leveled up.

We should also do forum upgrades more often (minus the drama) this place is more active than it has been since I've been back.
Co-Founder of the Canadian Alliance

I'm known as Tony on the internet.

VelvetElvis
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:22 am
Title: is real!
First Joined: 0- 9-2004

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby VelvetElvis » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:40 am

It's thrilling!
Yay, I'm a llama again!

User avatar
Luet
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4445
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 pm
Title: Bird Nerd
First Joined: 01 Jul 2000
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Luet » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:16 am

I wanted to bump this up and link to this thread where we had all talked about how we wanted the new forum to be set up. If we still agree on that general idea, maybe the Tech guys could help finish up the forum restructuring and simplification. The religion forum got merged but the Book and Movie club sub-forums are still hanging out there, unused for many months at a time. As was said above, they would probably do just fine and might get more action as threads in Milagre. Any thoughts?
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

TechNoodle
Techie
Techie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby TechNoodle » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:40 pm

Per Nomi's request I have merged the Book Club and Movie Club sub-forums with Milagre. However, it appears I don't have the permissions to make the book club sticky thread un-stickied. So, that's why there are new sticky threads here.
I usually post as someone else.

User avatar
Luet
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4445
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 pm
Title: Bird Nerd
First Joined: 01 Jul 2000
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Luet » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:52 am

I think I just managed to unsticky them. Anyway, thank you so much Noodle! You rock! :bow:

The forum set-up looks much simpler now. :thumbs:
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer." - Albert Camus in Return to Tipasa

User avatar
Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 7840
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:26 pm

thank you so much Noodle! You rock! :bow:

The forum set-up looks much simpler now. :thumbs:

This. Very much.
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

Noodle
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:18 pm
Title: Pastamancer Tony
First Joined: 06 Feb 1916
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Noodle » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:57 pm

Not a problem at all. :)
Co-Founder of the Canadian Alliance

I'm known as Tony on the internet.

User avatar
Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 7840
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:59 pm

So, you wild and crazy kids, how about that site addition? It's all I want for Christmas, since I've had my two front teeth for quite a while. :mrgreen:
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

VelvetElvis
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:22 am
Title: is real!
First Joined: 0- 9-2004

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby VelvetElvis » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:22 pm

My front teeth are kind of big and awkward, so this will be EVEN BETTER.
Yay, I'm a llama again!

User avatar
Syphon the Sun
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 2215
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:59 pm
Title: Ozymandias

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:52 pm

My front teeth are kind of big and awkward, so this will be EVEN BETTER.
Hermione Granger?
Step softly; a dream lies buried here.

VelvetElvis
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:22 am
Title: is real!
First Joined: 0- 9-2004

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby VelvetElvis » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:08 pm

But I didn't become a fabulous and hot model at the end.
Yay, I'm a llama again!

User avatar
Gravity Defier
Commander
Commander
Posts: 7840
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:32 pm
Title: Ewok in Tauntaun-land

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:37 pm

Er, so, uh...how about that site addition?
Se paciente y duro; algún día este dolor te será útil.

User avatar
zeroguy
Commander
Commander
Posts: 2740
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:29 pm
Title: 01111010 01100111
First Joined: 0- 8-2001
Location: Where you least expect me.
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby zeroguy » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:12 pm

Er, so, uh...how about that site addition?
What may help move this along is to have a single person take responsibility for it (or that could just be Jan, but I mean more someone who can actively be working on it day-to-day or whatever).

While I think it would be helpful to identify specifically what we want (from talking about this before, I believe it's "something like what the philoticweb.net home page used to be")... a single point of responsibility may help avoid losing momentum, since it provides a person to be poked/asked, instead of just asking "the board". Is anyone actively working on this right now?
Proud member of the Canadian Alliance.

dgf hhw

User avatar
starlooker
Commander
Commander
Posts: 3823
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:19 pm
Title: Dr. Mom
First Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Home. With cats who have names.
Contact:

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby starlooker » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:20 pm

Don't we have all the stuff from the old site somewhere? I seem to remember someone recovering it.

*shrugs*
There's another home somewhere,
There's another glimpse of sky...
There's another way to lean
into the wind, unafraid.
There's another life out there...

~~Mary Chapin Carpenter

User avatar
GS
Soldier
Soldier
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:55 am
Title: Ganon's Bane
First Joined: 02 Feb 1922

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby GS » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:59 am

Any chance we can get a response on this? We have five mods and four tech people now and no one has commented save zero (and his comment was more of a question).

It has been a week since the initial question was asked, and nothing. Is someone working on it? Do we have the old content? Is help needed? Or as zero suggested, do we need one person to take this responsibility? If so, is it going to be a mod or techie, or are they too busy with other things? The forum looks great, but we are still just a forum floating out there with no content. I thought the major point of getting control from Ami, apart from forum upgrades, was to get a main page up and running.
I don't want to do things. I want to not do things.

User avatar
Jayelle
Speaker for the Dead
Speaker for the Dead
Posts: 4026
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm
Title: Queen Ducky
First Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Location: The Far East (of Canada)

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Jayelle » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:14 am


It has been a week since the initial question was asked, and nothing.
It's been less than a day! I didn't have time to respond last night and I am usually busy during the day.


I would like to get going on the main page for the site, but I have no clue how to go about it. Honestly, I don't feel all that strongly about what goes up or how it looks, but if no one else wants to be in charge, I can start giving orders.

Tech guys - do you want to work on the main site, or do you not have the time? Should we be finding more people to help out with this?
One Duck to rule them all.
--------------------------------
It needs to be about 20% cooler.

User avatar
Syphon the Sun
Toon Leader
Toon Leader
Posts: 2215
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:59 pm
Title: Ozymandias

Re: Pweb Meta Talk: Can we move it? Make it better?

Postby Syphon the Sun » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:20 am

It has been a week since the initial question was asked, and nothing.
It's been less than a day! I didn't have time to respond last night and I am usually busy during the day.
Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:59 pm--
So, you wild and crazy kids, how about that site addition? It's all I want for Christmas, since I've had my two front teeth for quite a while. :mrgreen:
Step softly; a dream lies buried here.


Return to “Milagre Town Square”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests