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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:08 am

Yeah, definitely don't do that with a nice pea coat. It looks pretty freaking sweet, though. If you're serious about it, and it was a good deal, justify a dry clean.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby LilBee91 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:26 pm

Hey Catholic Pwebbers,

I want to go to a Catholic mass at some point, just to get a taste of what they are like. But I really don't know anything about how they work. Can random folk just show up? What do you wear? Is there a particular mass that is more visitor-friendly than others? Is is better to go to a Sunday service or one during the week? Or should I wait for an Easter mass or something like that?
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby CezeN » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:48 pm

Yeah, definitely don't do that with a nice pea coat. It looks pretty freaking sweet, though. If you're serious about it, and it was a good deal, justify a dry clean.
Thanks. And yeah, I should have when I had the chance.

Now I'm about to leave and go back to my college, and I'm much too lazy to find a dry cleaner there. Especially since I'd have to take public transportation, if it isn't in walking distance. It definitely did deserve a professional dry cleaning though.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Hey Catholic Pwebbers,

I want to go to a Catholic mass at some point, just to get a taste of what they are like. But I really don't know anything about how they work. Can random folk just show up? What do you wear? Is there a particular mass that is more visitor-friendly than others? Is is better to go to a Sunday service or one during the week? Or should I wait for an Easter mass or something like that?
Every Catholic parish I've ever met has been very welcoming to visitors, even people from other faiths. Generally you just shouldn't go up for Communion, and, if you do, not to receive it. What you wear is mostly depending on the parish, but if you go with a decent dress, skirt, or just nice jeans and sweat, you'll probably be fine. Christmas and Easter masses get the most visitors, but it really shouldn't matter too much. Sunday is probably your best bet, though, because weekday services tend to be abbreviated in some form or another, and are mostly there for people who are either A) more devout than usual, or B) missed Sunday.

I think I covered all of the bases. I was just talking about such things on Friday, as a matter of fact.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby jotabe » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:26 am

Hey Catholic Pwebbers,

I want to go to a Catholic mass at some point, just to get a taste of what they are like. But I really don't know anything about how they work. Can random folk just show up? What do you wear? Is there a particular mass that is more visitor-friendly than others? Is is better to go to a Sunday service or one during the week? Or should I wait for an Easter mass or something like that?
Every Catholic parish I've ever met has been very welcoming to visitors, even people from other faiths. Generally you just shouldn't go up for Communion, and, if you do, not to receive it. What you wear is mostly depending on the parish, but if you go with a decent dress, skirt, or just nice jeans and sweat, you'll probably be fine. Christmas and Easter masses get the most visitors, but it really shouldn't matter too much. Sunday is probably your best bet, though, because weekday services tend to be abbreviated in some form or another, and are mostly there for people who are either A) more devout than usual, or B) missed Sunday.

I think I covered all of the bases. I was just talking about such things on Friday, as a matter of fact.
To what Mich said, i'd add that, if you are baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost", and if you read the catholic Creed (here as Apostle's Creed), understand it and agree with it, you can take the communion.
Of course, the whole process of understanding the Creed and agreeing with it could be called "becoming Catholic" :wink:
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:35 am

I was raised to believe the only way it was acceptable to accept communion was to have confessed sins to a priest (presumably at least once for every opportunity to have communion, so once a week attendance required one confessional).

As that was what I was taught, I only had communion twice in my life despite attending church regularly then semi-regularly into my mid-20s.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby jotabe » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:34 am

I was raised to believe the only way it was acceptable to accept communion was to have confessed sins to a priest (presumably at least once for every opportunity to have communion, so once a week attendance required one confessional).

As that was what I was taught, I only had communion twice in my life despite attending church regularly then semi-regularly into my mid-20s.
I can relate, because that's what my mother said they had told her. I don't know if it is an old teaching that was phased out by the CVII or just a common misunderstanding, but, from what i know, you only need to be in state of Grace. You earn the state of Grace with the baptism, and only lose it with mortal sin. Mortal sin being a sin in grave matter with full knowledge and free will.

So, you only need to Reconcile before Communing if you have committed a mortal sin since the last time you Reconciled. And mortal sin isn't anything one can commit casually. :mrgreen:
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Rei » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:42 am


To what Mich said, i'd add that, if you are baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost", and if you read the catholic Creed (here as Apostle's Creed), understand it and agree with it, you can take the communion.
Of course, the whole process of understanding the Creed and agreeing with it could be called "becoming Catholic" :wink:
I'm pretty sure that's not actually liturgically correct. I'm reasonably certain that almost every major Protestant branch agrees with the Apostles Creed, and many even the Nicene Creed, but none of them are in communion with the Catholic Church. That said, anybody can go up for a blessing, and you indicate that you want a blessing by crossing your arms with your hands on your shoulders.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby starlooker » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:48 am

Um. Yeah. Lutheran here. Recite and understand both the Apostle's and Nicene creeds and have definitely not become Catholic. (Protestant churches, when saying the part about believing in the holy catholic church either use the word catholic with a small c, meaning universal, or alter the line to say "holy Christian church.)
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:10 am

Um. Yeah. Lutheran here. Recite and understand both the Apostle's and Nicene creeds and have definitely not become Catholic.
Are you sure? Catholicism is a weird virus. Maybe it snuck up on you? You should probably get yourself checked. Have you found yourself accidentally hanging up crucifixes? Crossing yourself before praying? Doing... other Catholic things that other religions don't?
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby starlooker » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:29 am

Some Lutherans cross themselves (my mom).

I received communion from a female pastor last week. Pretty sure that puts me in the clear :)
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:03 am

My mom crosses herself in a way I've never been able to duplicate and I didn't want to ask what she did because that seemed strange. I'm not sure if she was doing a mini cross with her fingers on each part of the gesture or a double-tap or what, but I just single touched forehead, chest, left shoulder, right shoulder.

Since I don't go to church anymore, the only time I do this now is before long trips via car or airplane so it doesn't much matter.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Young Val » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:08 pm

This one's for Kim (and other Cat People)

We would like to revamp Durp's diet. (Yes, our cat's name is Durp. No, I was not a party in this decision). She's generally on the dainty side, for a cat, and often looks bigger than she is, due to copious amounts of fur. In the 5 years I've known her, she's put on some weight. Not enough that she's one of those fat internet cats or anything, but she definitely has a noticeable pooch that was never there before. We'd like to do two things: 1. help her slim down a bit (she's probably not more than a pound or two overweight, but when you're as small as a cat, I imagine that makes a difference) and 2. revamp her diet permanently.

Right now, she gets an indeterminate amount of dry food in the mornings (anywhere from a half cup to an over-flowing cup, I'd guess. I admit we don't measure. Some days she eats it all, some days she doesn't. In the evening, if she has eaten it all, David will usually top her off with a bit more.

Three afternoons a week, she's given canned food in addition to her dry food. She clearly, clearly prefers this.

This isn't always the way we've fed her, but it's been this way for about a year.

When we noticed the extra weight, I started looking online a bit, to find out what we could do about it. General consensus is to get rid of the dry food. Do you guys agree? If she's eating canned food exclusively, should she be fed once a day, twice a day? Any other things to keep in mind here?
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Petra456 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:20 pm

I used to just have one big bowl of food out for my cats and they would eat whenever they were hungry. Then my parents got their dog and she decided she liked cat food also. Now I feed my cats dry food twice a day (a quarter cup each time) it's they've actually gone from being tubby to normal weight. I've tried giving mine wet food, but for some reason they turn up their noses at it, all three of them! I'm interested to hear Kimmy's response because i've never thought about the difference in wet/dry food.

I've always wondered how bad it is to feed your cat people food. Lulamay is such a begger and loves just about anything. It's hard to say no to her!
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby starlooker » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:20 pm

Absolutely. We got rid of the dry food because Reece was constantly getting UTIs, and wet food meant he'd ingest more water. Both he and Tara were quite overweight, he was nearly twenty pounds. The UTIs completely stopped after we switched, and he went down to fourteen pounds. Tara slimmed down a good bit, too.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby powerfulcheese04 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:55 pm

I would not recommend switching to exclusively wet food without a medical reason for it (like kidney or urinary disease.) Its actually really bad for their teeth. One of the best ways to encourage weight loss is to measure food. Its really the first step. Just like us, you can't eat willy nilly whatever and expect to stay trim easily. On average (and it depends a little on your brand), 1/4 cup twice a day is a good starting place. You should take your bag recommendation less a third (I'm assuming your cat is spayed. Spaying reduces calorie need by 1/3 almost instantly.)

My own cat feeding regimen is a little intense but it gets the best of a lot of things. They each get 1/4 cup dry food at night. In the morning, they get 1/8 cup of dental food (Rx food for dental health) and 1/2 can of wet food.

After you start measuring food, the next step for weight loss is activity. Find something she'll play with and play with her. Flyer toys, balls, laser lights, whatever.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby starlooker » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:26 pm

Hee. Yeah. By "absolutely" what I meant is if your cats are my cats and someone more qualified doesn't disagree :)
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:18 pm

Speaking of cat food questions, mine have a tendency to eat everything in the bowl if they're hungry, and then they immediately throw it up, I assume due to an overly-full stomach. This has prevented me from trying to slim down their diets, mostly out of fear of vomit. Not that they're fat, it's just, like Kelly said, Roxie maybe has an extra pound or two, undoubtedly due to an almost-always full food bowl.

So, uh: what do?
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Luet » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:35 pm

What solved my cats problem of throwing up immediately after eating/gorging, was putting a golf ball (or two) in their food dishes. This forces them to slow down and eat around the balls. They actually sell special things for dog dishes but not for cats, so I used the golf balls. Now instead of throwing up multiple times a week, it happens maybe a couple times a year.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby powerfulcheese04 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:52 pm

Yep, Nomi hit exactly what I would suggest, Mich. Measure then throw something bigger than their mouth on top
For cats, golf balls are great. (I suggest baseballs or softballs for dogs.)
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:05 pm

Wow, awesome, that sounds super-simple, and I've never heard of that. I shall try it promptly.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby jotabe » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:19 am


To what Mich said, i'd add that, if you are baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost", and if you read the catholic Creed (here as Apostle's Creed), understand it and agree with it, you can take the communion.
Of course, the whole process of understanding the Creed and agreeing with it could be called "becoming Catholic" :wink:
I'm pretty sure that's not actually liturgically correct. I'm reasonably certain that almost every major Protestant branch agrees with the Apostles Creed, and many even the Nicene Creed, but none of them are in communion with the Catholic Church. That said, anybody can go up for a blessing, and you indicate that you want a blessing by crossing your arms with your hands on your shoulders.
Wait, i thought the protestants in general didn't believe in the communion with the saints...

But on the topic, you mean a protestant would specifically be unable to commune in a catholic celebration (let's take, for example, an anglican, who are the protestants theologically closest to catholicism)?
What solved my cats problem of throwing up immediately after eating/gorging, was putting a golf ball (or two) in their food dishes. This forces them to slow down and eat around the balls. They actually sell special things for dog dishes but not for cats, so I used the golf balls. Now instead of throwing up multiple times a week, it happens maybe a couple times a year.
Well, that's an awesome tip. I know my parents must have laying around some ping-pong balls...
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby starlooker » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:42 am

Wait, i thought the protestants in general didn't believe in the communion with the saints...
We define "communion of saints" somewhat differently, basically as the whole of the Christian church, as the body of Christ. To us (again, "us" meaning Lutherans specifically, but I believe Protestants generally) all believers, both on earth and in Heaven are considered saints - as well as sinners.

From Luther's Large Catechism:
But this is the meaning and substance of this addition ["the communion of saints"]: I believe that there is upon earth a little holy group and congregation of pure saints, under one head, even Christ, called together by the Holy Ghost in one faith, one mind, and understanding, with manifold gifts, yet agreeing in love, without sects or schisms. 52] I am also a part and member of the same, a sharer and joint owner of all the goods it possesses (Large Catechism; 3rd Article of the Creed 51-52)
As far as saints like Peter, Paul, etc., they're more on the order of role models. We're grateful for their lives, encouraged by God's forgiveness of their failings, and try to learn from their lives. We do not ask for their intercession or consider them to be more holy than any other believer.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Young Val » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:52 am

Thanks, Kim and fellow cat people!
you snooze, you lose
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Petra456 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:01 am

What solved my cats problem of throwing up immediately after eating/gorging, was putting a golf ball (or two) in their food dishes. This forces them to slow down and eat around the balls. They actually sell special things for dog dishes but not for cats, so I used the golf balls. Now instead of throwing up multiple times a week, it happens maybe a couple times a year.
I tried this last night with two of my cats (who eat way too fast and have a throwing up problem) and it seemed to work, no throw up!
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:16 am

I have also tried it! It's funny that we all apparently have golf balls around, but maybe everyone is a golfer and I just like juggling.

Also no word on if it definitely works, yet, because I woke up to a lovely hairball. So vomiting was definitely happening either way. However, there was no food accompanying the hairball, so maybe it worked?

In regards to:
Some Lutherans cross themselves (my mom).
I exclusively know about the Catholic and LDS faiths. Seriously anything else just gets me confused, so it was pretty much a shot in the dark as to what Lutherans do and don't do. Even the crucifixes, although I figured that was a pretty low chance.

I was pretty amazed when I was twelve to learn that other religions do Lent.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Petra456 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:35 am

I didn't have any golf balls around, so I used this toy we got them for Christmas that has a ton of little green balls (about golf ball size) that you can put treats in and they have to tip them over to get the treats out.

I also may have spoke too soon. She was sitting on my lap and and I was congratulating her for not throwing up, and she started hacking. Only a little food came out (compared to normally almost all of it). I'll keep trying it though, maybe it takes time?
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby LilBee91 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:27 pm

Thanks for the info, folks. I don't know when I'll go to a mass, but I'll let you know!

Also, cats are disgusting.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Luet » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:29 pm

Golf balls tend to work well because they are the right size and are heavy enough that the cats aren't easily able to knock them out of the dish. Ping pong balls might not work as well because of the light weight.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Rei » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:26 pm


Wait, i thought the protestants in general didn't believe in the communion with the saints...

But on the topic, you mean a protestant would specifically be unable to commune in a catholic celebration (let's take, for example, an anglican, who are the protestants theologically closest to catholicism)?
As zona said, there is a different understanding of communion of the saints. One of the key reasons for disallowing open communion is the difference of belief in what the communion elements actually are, i.e., a symbol, the body and blood of Christ, or both bread and wine AND the body and blood of Christ. And then on top of that there is the acceptance of the Apostolic tradition, so whether the priest is of the line of Peter, or whether they accept the communion of those who have broken away from that.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby starlooker » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:46 pm

Right, except we don't believe communion is symbolic. (Nor do we believe in transubstantiation.)
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Eaquae Legit » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:23 pm

You Lutherans are weird. ;) You and your consubstantiation!

Catholics are prohibited from taking communion* in denominations which are not in communion**. Non-Catholics, or those not in communion** with the Roman church, are prohibited from taking Catholic communion*. The intent, as Rei said, is to maintain the sanctity and integrity of the Eucharist.

If one believes that the items which appear outwardly to be mere bread and wine become, in a very real sense, the literal, physical, living body and blood of Jesus***, i.e. God, then it's actually rather sensible to not wish that sacrament to be profaned by anyone consuming it with anything less than the due reverence. (A reverence which I admit is actually almost impossible to maintain on a regular basis even for a believer, because man it's exhausting. But we do our best, or should.) A lot of Protestants don't understand and can get rather offended if asked to refrain, because to them it can't possibly be such a big deal - the perceptible elements are just bread and wine, after all. Sure, a nice remembrance of the Incarnation, but how could someone who believes in Jesus possibly profane that remembrance? It's a tricky thing. Edit: Lutherans are a bit easier to talk to because of their belief in consubstantiation, which is more than symbolic.

The corollary of that is that one who believes in transubstantiation (the technical term for the Catholic beliefs regarding the Eucharist) should not profane it by treating any lesser (so-perceived) ritual with a similar reverence to that of the Eucharist. Roman Catholics don't believe Jesus intended a mere remembrance by his instructions, so they are enjoined not to participate in a "misinterpretation" that demeans his actual (so-perceived) instructions.

To be considered a Christian in Catholic theology and law****, one must do what Jota described: undergo a Trinitarian Baptism and be able to profess the Creed (Apostles or Nicene, I'm not sure, but I tend to the Nicene, as there are a few very key theological distinctions made there which are not included in the Apostles Creed). However, not all Christians are permitted to take part in communion - the Eucharist - in the Catholic Church. That's where the bit about being in communion** comes in. I certainly don't know all the denominations, but I believe the Coptics, Ukranian Orthodox, and a few others are in communion. The Greek and Russian Orthodox are a sticky issue, as the Roman Church acknowledges a commonality of faith and considers them to be in communion enough, but the theology is not reciprocated.

The Communion of Saints is a whole 'nother thing, being all the believers living and dead of any denomination who profess a Christian faith.

I'm sure Rei can correct me if I've gotten anything wrong, but I think I'm pretty accurate here.


* That word can be used a lot of different ways, so here it means the bread and wine/grape juice/water, depending on denomination.
** Here meaning an agreement that each other are doctrinally in accord on certain key issues.
*** Yes, yes, go ahead and make your cannibal jokes, I assure you there's a 2000-year-old tradition to them.
**** This is very different from a more academic taxonomy which includes Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, who are often excluded by Trinitarian Christians.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby LilBee91 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:34 pm

Right, except we don't believe communion is symbolic. (Nor do we believe in transubstantiation.)
My roommate over the summer was Lutheran. The one thing she and her Catholic boyfriend managed to agree on was that communion is not symbolic. The rest of the time was spent arguing about praying to saints/Mary, Bible vs. tradition, etc. It was quite entertaining.
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Eaquae Legit » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:38 pm

Bible vs. Tradition
Fixed that for ya. ;)
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Re: Yes, I know Google is my friend, but I'd rather ask you.

Postby Mich » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:17 am

The whole "not taking Communion* if you're not in communion**" deal was actually a very precise and thankfully painless way for my parents to let me know that they were fine with me being/okay with no discussing how I may be, well, stepping away from the faith. Basically we were discussing Christmas plans and I said I was checking a suitcase because I had to bring a decent suit for Christmas Mass, and my mom was like "Oh yeah, so you're going? Please don't take Communion." And I was like "Of course." Bam. Done. Basically discussed.

It was convenient.

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