Don't Ask, Don't Tell

[Satya]

We came close, once again, to abolishing this unbelievably un-American policy; filibustered and blocked by Senate Republicans.

Discuss. I demand it.

[neo-dragon]

The one on the left.

Did I win??

[Satya]

It's Three-Casket Monte. You never win.

...Wait, did you seriously vote for "For"? I put the poll up as an afterthought; didn't think anyone would actually go for it. Wow.

[neo-dragon]

Not everyone thinks as you do, Satya.

And not everyone who posts in a thread votes in the poll.

[Jayelle]

Discuss. I demand it.

Sorry, man, I don't have a strong view on American policy since I'm not American. You can demand all you want.

[neo-dragon]

It's funny that the first people to respond are Canadians who don't really care.

[Caspian]

un-American

What does that mean?

Also, for the record, I'm against gays in the military. And straights in the military. I'm against the military.

[Satya]

...Shouldn't have expected better here, suppose.

And "not everyone thinks as you do" in no way justifies the opinion. Not everyone thinks the Holocaust occurred, but hey - not everyone thinks as I do, right?

And "un-American" means against the founding principles of American society - namely, you know, freedom. Remember that?

[neo-dragon]

And "not everyone thinks as you do" in no way justifies the opinion. Not everyone thinks the Holocaust occurred, but hey - not everyone thinks as I do, right?

And knowing this, if you create a poll that allows people to express that view you shouldn't be surprised when someone does. That says nothing about whether the opinion is justified or not.

[Satya]

If you create a poll that asks "did the Holocaust occur?" yes, you can and should be surprised when someone votes "no." Not because you think there's no one who thinks like that (there are, as there are always nuts and racists/homophobes and psychopaths), but because to openly say so is so stupid and ignorant most people on the wrong end of an obvious issue at least have the brain cells left not to say so... unless the psychopathy is so rampant (i.e., Ahmedinejad) that the individual does not care about that, in which case they are widely and rightly ridiculed, mocked and derided for the asshat they are.

[neo-dragon]

Tell it to the Flat Earth Society.

There's not an opinion ever thought up that's so stupid that some people won't express it with pride in their own intelligence coupled with disdain for anyone who believes differently.

[Satya]

Uh... Flat-Earth Society, Holocaust deniers, AIDS deniers (people who think that HIV doesn't cause AIDS), etc... Why not throw in Time-Cube guy while you're at it? Let me put it this way - I thought among the remaining members of this forum (all 10 of them) that none of them would be so hideously ignorant. Better?

[neo-dragon]

Yes.

But unlike holocaust deniers and the rest, this opinion is apparently the official one of your government, and therefore presumably at least a reasonable portion of your countrymen as well. So maybe you shouldn't be too surprised.

[Satya]

this opinion is apparently the official one of your government, and therefore presumably at least a reasonable portion of your countrymen as well. So maybe you shouldn't be too surprised.

You realize you're talking about the average American citizen, right?

[Mich]

Satya, without straying into extremist words and phrases, could you please describe to me how you feel about DADT, and why you feel that way?

In case you haven't noticed, I really hate debates and such, so I'm not striving for that, and don't feel that I know enough about why people would absolutely love or hate it to feel either way. So please tell me why you, personally, feel it's un-American and needs to be abolished.

I just want information before the debate gets back to the actual topic, if it does.

[megxers]

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/ ... dont-tell/

So yeah, I think it should be repealed and should have been awhile ago.

[Luet]

Also, for the record, I'm against gays in the military. And straights in the military. I'm against the military.

Hurrah!

[Eaquae Legit]

Also, for the record, I'm against gays in the military. And straights in the military. I'm against the military.

Are you sure you're not a mennonite?

[Rei]

I can't be opposed to the military because they do too much disaster relief and peace-keeping. And that I feel should be (and generally IS in Canada) its role.

As for DADT, I don't see how who you find sexually attractive has any bearing on your ability to serve.

[fawkes]

I'd like to think that, as a society, we can move past the sexual/racial/whatever labels that everyone is assigned and has to live by. Your sexual preferance has no bearing on your morality, your patriotism, or your ability to follow orders in the military, nor does it have any bearing on your skills as a person.

[jotabe]

As far as i understand it, i think a sensible police would be to apply DADT in a more restrictive form: extended to heterosexual soldiers, too.

A superior officer shouldn't have the right to ask a soldier about their sexual preference. On the other hand, a serving soldier has enough to focus as to allow them to engage in sexual acts. Furthermore, having personal attachments, or talking about them, will make them less efficient in their duty (that's why monk-warriors worked so well... too well for their own good).

[Gravity Defier]

Thank you, Jeff, for your post. I had higher hopes for this thread before anyone started replying.

My stance is that DADT is wrong, it should have been repealed, and I'm disappointed it wasn't. However, what I'm most interested in hearing is those who believe it was right to uphold DADT and unfortunately, they're not likely to post now that they've seen what kind of responses they can expect.

Perhaps fostering an environment of respect for the 10 remaining members of varying opinions is something to consider; it's certainly better than calling them ignorant asshats and then getting upset no one is taking this seriously.



For anyone who is for DADT and willing to answer, do you support it because you think it is best for the safety of the gay members of the military? For religious reasons, maybe? I'm curious as to how someone's sexual preference is relevant to doing one's job. It can be argued being in the military is not the same as holding a civilian job, that the government essentially holds members of the military to different laws and controls so much more of their every day lives, that this might be seen as a natural extension of their control. I can't, however, see why they would choose to exercise control in that area. It seems so arbitrary.

[Satya]

People know what they're getting from me. Simple as that. I've got nothing to concede.

If the lone voter for maintaining a discriminatory policy is also a coward in addition to a homophobe and can't bear to discuss their "opinion" in an anonymous internet forum, some of you feel as if you've 'missed out'? What can I say? What possible justification could you expect besides what has already been widely discussed in all forms of media for over a decade?

I can't stand you people sometimes.

[jotabe]

Well, you know what kind of justification could give you someone who thinks gays belong out of the military. They'll say they aren't "manly" enough, they don't have the killer instinct required to be a soldier.
We all know what's that about. "Grow a pair", "have balls", " you are a pussy"... hell, even heterosexual guys get that treatment, how would the actual homosexuals not get it? And being a soldier is the manliest of the manly jobs, so you have to be manly. Even if you are a woman.

I was raise with that belief, which is partly why i hate armies, because all that manliness talk made me believe them to be just a bunch of repressed psycho murderers.

Seriously, i can easily think that whoever voted that might have been trolling.

...

*sigh*
...no, it wasn't me, really. Why always so suspicious?!

[buckshot]

I'm shure i'm steppin right in it but I was more comfortable when we all didn't know (for shure) who was and who was not Gay. When working with folks you depend on to keep you alive in battle you don't need the distraction (and it is) when folks are gay.

[starlooker]

First of all, I hate, deplore, despise the policy. All of it.

Secondly, if we must be stuck with this asinine policy, I think the people who ASK (and persecute) under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" should ALSO get kicked out.

[daPyr0x]

I'm shure i'm steppin right in it but I was more comfortable when we all didn't know (for shure) who was and who was not Gay. When working with folks you depend on to keep you alive in battle you don't need the distraction (and it is) when folks are gay.

I'm going to be the same inflammatory bastard I'm known so well as around here and tell you that that's YOUR problem, not theirs.

You'll fight alongside hetero men, hetero women, hell even homo women...but homo men are distracting? Or do you think we should ban the women, too; 'cause they're distracting? If you're that badly distracted in battle knowing a member of your platoon would rather suck you off than, say, kill innocents for sport? Oh, right, those two aren't mutually exclusive. Personally, I'm far more scared of these people than having a homosexual member of the platoon.

If you're that insecure that you can't handle the idea of a man near you might find you attractive, maybe we shouldn't be giving you a weapon...

[buckshot]

Here we go! Dap do you want to take my guns away based on my comfort level dealing with Gays and liberals? It sounds like you got something churning away in there!

[LilBee91]

And being a soldier is the manliest of the manly jobs, so you have to be manly. Even if you are a woman.

So really, we should be all for lesbians in the military, and kick the straight ones out. [/sarcasm]

Out of curiosity, does the military give any consideration to non-married hetero couples?

[Satya]

Uh, yeah buckshot. If you're thinking about the sexuality of your comrades-in-arms while you're supposed to be doing your job, YOU'RE the person with the serious issues, no one else. If you can't keep your mind off of whether or not Sgt. Simmons is gay, maybe you're the one who's gay.

[VelvetElvis]

I'm for DADT. Talk of sexual preferences does not belong in a work environment whether straight, gay, or confused.

[Satya]

Um.. You realize that the actual DADT policy is not simply Don't Ask/Don't Tell - it's We Won't Ask, but if we find out we're kicking your ass out no matter what.

[VelvetElvis]

The ass-kicking isn't policy. People are not always nice to other people, and you can't legislate that away.

[Satya]

Kicking your ass OUT. Ugh. Why do I bother here.

[VelvetElvis]

I understood your comment the first time. And with regards to the second part of your reply, I don't know the answer, but when you figure it out, please share.