Comics

[Mich]

Well, we have a web comics thread, but no thread for comics, which I find rather lacking. I know I'm not the only one who enjoys them, although I'm probably one of the most vocal ones, and we've been having a lot of talk about getting Alea (and now Jason, apparently) to read Y: the Last Man, which is a big step for the whole continent, I'd say. So anyway, look, a thread about comics, and the fancy print ones, too.

I realized that I like most things that Warren Ellis writes, so I went and checked out a massive file dump of all of his work and found that I don't necessarily like everything he writes. I know that I need to check out Freakangels, though, and Doktor Sleepless definitely seems like the next Transmetropolitan. I'm just surprised that someone read RED and thought "Let's make a movie out of this, only a comedy!

Oh, and Desolation Jones really needs to be picked back up. It's like a non-supernatural Hellraiser! HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THAT?

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm kind of running out of material.

[Gravity Defier]

Be forewarned, there will be spoilers throughout this post for Y most likely, so don't read through if you haven't started/finished the thing and intend to do so.


First, I'd like to introduce you guys to my newly named, but otherwise old, friends. This is Ampersand and Bonny, officially named after characters from the comic. Prior to today -for about a decade- they were Mooch 1 and 2.



Now on to thoughts and opinions about the whole process.

Part of what's kept me away from comics in general were ignorance and presumptions. I figured they were written for boys/men and therefore couldn't be that good -much the same way chick flicks aren't all/mostly good- and I also let myself get a little intimidated by the terminology. Am I reading an issue or a volume? For some series I've seen, which issue/volume do you even start with? I'd see three different "1"s that appeared to be for the same comic but all were different somehow.

With a lot of Googling, just to be sure I wasn't starting in the middle, I put Y on hold and dove right in that same night. This may sound silly but this is something else I struggled with with concerns to web comics: I start focusing too much on text or image, not so great about getting closer to equal focus. I didn't have that problem so much with this one, who knows why.

As to the story itself, I loved it. The premise was great, as was the humor Vaughan used throughout, namely through the character Yorick. Then again, I'm a sucker for infusing pop culture into conversations at every possible moment so I felt a sort of kinship with the guy. This is sort of addressed in one of the later issues, even, in a way I really appreciated.

Yorick realizes that just because someone can match your style of banter or appreciate the things you do doesn't make them particularly special in terms of relationship potential. How many people, myself included, have fallen into that trap? "We have so much in common!" Sure, that helps in some cases but it's not the end all, be all.

I think another reason this resonated so much with me was because of how familiar it felt. I told Jeff it was very much in the style of Joss Whedon's storytelling and Joss and I go way back; 2001 for intense Buffy watching, 2005 for Firefly/Serenity, etc.

The cover art was spectacular but I'm glad the comic art was a different style. I thought I'd be more (or at all) offended by all the nudity and sex but honestly, not only was most of it no big deal, some of it was pretty intense, in a good way. It felt real, maybe not always deep and filled with loving intentions/motivations but all the same, it felt real. I'm pretty sure my hangup with most sex scenes/nudity in media is that it quite often feels gratuitous.

Some of the story was predictable but not enough to make it an issue. I really enjoyed how characters I thought we were done seeing (e.g. model cum gravedigger) were shown again later, so that you have a better idea of what happens to them.

I was saddened, elated, and then immediately after reduced to tears with Yorick and 355 in issue...not sure. One of the 50s. I kid you not; I haven't cried so hard in a few weeks, at least which may not sound like a big deal but trust me when I say that is. I kept thinking to myself that they had no time together when it hit me, they had 5 years together and that was, in its own way, just as special as anything else might have been. I finally pulled myself together, only to be reduced to tears again over Ampersand, even though that was inevitable and expected sooner.

The ending was perfectly touching.

What surprised me when I finished was how attached I became to these characters and how I wanted more of them and their world.



Spoilers No More



Anyhow, I think I'll be trying Sandman next. We should have that at work. Of course, other suggestions are always welcome and if they're posted in here, I'll have an easier time keeping track.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

Y the Last Man is a good comic, maybe even a great one, but I think it's a bit overhyped. Yes, Yorick is one of the most well-rounded heroes in recent memory in... anything, and that's what makes the story work, but... meh. It's not Watchmen, or the Dark Knight Returns, but people put it up on a pedastal on par with those works for this generation, and it's just not. His relationship with 355 and its end are amazingly written, but in the end, I'll probably forget it in another 5 years or so.

I'll throw in a recommendation for the Scott Pilgrim comics, though. Mostly because I understand some people where underwhelmed by the movie, but the comics deliver pretty well, and the art is fun. It feels more like the best written webcomic in the world, plus it's got Canadians!

Sandman, American Gods, and Lucifer are kind of on my list, Lucifer first, actually. I was turned off of Gaiman by the Stardust movie - admittedly probably not the best medium to judge, but I did pick up something else of his, I think just a short story on the internet, and I wasn't thrilled the way his fans seem to be, so maybe there's just something I don't get.

[Jayelle]

Good call on starting this thread, Mich, it's been a long time coming.

Sandman is great, if you want to bite off another big chunk. It's a long one. Bone is great for that as well.

There are some great stand-alones as well- I'm a big fan of American Born Chinese by Gene Luen Yang and Blankets by Craig Thompson. There both a bit autobiographical and both excellent.

When it comes to superheroes, I'm a DC fan - I love Identity Crisis, Batman: Year One, Batgirl: Year One, The Long Halloween... there are probably too many to name. The DC universe is complicated and can be stupid, but it's fun to get into. I love Alex Ross's illustrations, so I tend to gravitate towards his covers.
Astro City is a great series - it's a separate universe from the DC one, with it's own superheroes. It's very well written. Kurt Busiek is awesome.

[Young Val]

I LOVE Sandman (and really didn't expect to at all).

I've read quite a bit of Powers, Dare Devil, and--oddly enough--Spawn.

Mostly the comics I've read are the ones my boyfriends read. I just picked them up when they finished. I've read a lot of She-Hulk, Bone, and other stuff that way.

After Sandman, though, Fables is my FAVORITE.

[Eaquae Legit]

I really enjoyed Bone. It's great, and it's all colourised now, and there's only 10 volumes.

[Rei]

I started reading SANDMAN, but then I moved away from my source and I've not hunted down a new one.

I very much enjoyed BONE, but probably my absolute favourite series is NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WIND by Hayao Miyazaki. It's the only print story he's done, I think, and it's only seven volumes, but it's absolutely spectacular.

[perspicacious.emperor]

I very much enjoyed BONE, but probably my absolute favourite series is NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WIND by Hayao Miyazaki. It's the only print story he's done, I think, and it's only seven volumes, but it's absolutely spectacular.

I thought that Nausicaa only came in graphic adaptation of the movie...


(I find it extremely suspicious that manga is avoided, but judging from prejudice I've seen towards manga and anime, I'm not going to give a lecture :p)

I also read ABC, and its storyline is so cleverly connected!!!

There's this guy who wrote comics based on the time he spent in Shenzhen and Pyongyang. I really recommend those two; they are incredibly informative.

One of my favourite is Maus by Art Speigelman (sp?). It documents the biography of the artist's father, who was a Jew and lived through WWII. It was recommended to me in middle school (and strangely in both middle school and high school the copies are falling apart).

There's a big comic anthology called Flight done by various comic artist. There's some stuff in there that's definitely worth seeing, and the art is amazing.... *u*

[Rei]

I've never seen an adaptation of the film for that one. The story I have is way, way, way better than the film, and notably different as it progresses.

According to Wikipedia, the film is based on the first two volumes of the graphic novel.

[fawkes]

I really enjoyed Bone. It's great, and it's all colourised now, and there's only 10 volumes.

Oh HELLS yeah, I love me some Bone! I bought the omnibus a few years back ^_^

I started reading the fairy tale comic whose name escapes me at the moment, it's about fairy tale characters who escaped to the real world and have to hide their identities from normal people. I really like it, but Borders is always out of the second volume so I haven't been able to continue reading it yet

[Mich]

I started reading the fairy tale comic whose name escapes me at the moment, it's about fairy tale characters who escaped to the real world and have to hide their identities from normal people. I really like it, but Borders is always out of the second volume so I haven't been able to continue reading it yet

Fables. Kelly mentioned it, and you're both right: it's top-notch. It's been a while since I read it, but I was very, very disappointed when I got totally caught up. I highly suggest it, and, in fact, if Alea likes Sandman, I can guarantee she'll like Fables.

[Gravity Defier]

I finally got around to remembering to check for Sandman at work (and finally found where we hid it), and we only have volumes 2-4. I don't understand this.

[Gravity Defier]

I was peeking at the "items in transit" list Saturday and noticed Scott Pilgrim was heading back to us, so I grabbed what we had of those today. I made it through vol. 1 and 2 and am in the middle of vol. 3. Vol. 4 is in the growing pile of "To read" books I have with book 5 on hold, since my branch doesn't own that one. None of the libraries own vol. 6.

I'm having a hard time deciphering some parts -like who is in the panel, when it's taking place, how it is related to what came before it- but I'm liking it overall. There are some truly hilarious parts.

[Mich]

I was peeking at the "items in transit" list Saturday and noticed Scott Pilgrim was heading back to us, so I grabbed what we had of those today. I made it through vol. 1 and 2 and am in the middle of vol. 3. Vol. 4 is in the growing pile of "To read" books I have with book 5 on hold, since my branch doesn't own that one. None of the libraries own vol. 6.

I'm having a hard time deciphering some parts -like who is in the panel, when it's taking place, how it is related to what came before it- but I'm liking it overall. There are some truly hilarious parts.

SP does suffer somewhat from sameface, which would probably be alleviated in color, but at least O'Malley knows it enough to point it out several times.

I'm glad you're liking it, though. That means half of the board won't shun you.

[Jayelle]

I just re-read Maus (I and II) by Art Spiegelman. That is the most amazing comic ever - I think it might be the best book on the Holocaust, end of story.
It was even more heart-wrenching then I remembered. I had a long discussion afterwards about whether making the people into animals made it more relatable or less.

[Mich]

I just re-read Maus (I and II) by Art Spiegelman. That is the most amazing comic ever - I think it might be the best book on the Holocaust, end of story.

I might have mentioned this when I read it over the summer, but that comic... man. When I finished it, I didn't feel like doing anything for the rest of the day. It's the only thing I've ever actually described as "poignant," and I have been recommending it left and right.

I've decided that Tank Girl just isn't for me, which is a shame, because I love the art's style. I need something new to read; my Warren Ellis collection is getting wearing. I need something... Bone-like.

[fawkes]

I bought several volumes of the Wonderland series (by various artists), and for some reason the next installment is still unavailable, has been for over a year. I'd like to finish it...

[Mich]

I'm really, really looking forward to the Tintin movie. It was my first comic, I can safely say, and I read all of the ones that my elementary school offered.

Like, really, really looking forward to it. I'm rereading all of them as we speak.

[zeroguy]

Well, we have a web comics thread, but no thread for comics, which I find rather lacking.

Hey, man, you should've made a thread for comics first, then both could have gone in it (which makes more sense to me... most of the dead-tree comic books I have are also webcomics).

And this isn't really what the thread is about, but man, I find it really difficult to get into print comics. I really want to, though, since I really like a lot of webcomics, and I know many of those basically come from print comics origins.

The problem is... most of them are just awful. Like pretty much everything, over 90% of them I find intolerable; I cannot read them. It's the same with webcomics and most other media, but print comics involve so much volition to try out, and I find it difficult to get into them. (That is, most of the time you need to buy an issue to see, or go to the library or whatever to borrow one, etc etc.)

Webcomics are not an exception to >90% being awful, but... most of the time, the way I get into them is on a whim I start reading a few comics (tends to be linked from somewhere else), think "hey this is really good", and continue reading until I've read all of it.

I just don't know how something similar can work with print comics (except piracy, of course, but even then that tends to be an additional step of work). The only reason I read Y:TLM is because I read pirated images someone posted in an imageboard thread I happened to be reading. And honestly, while I thought Y:TLM was good and had a really neat premise and all... I wouldn't buy issues, or go through the effort of finding more. I just read the issues that were in that thread and haven't looked for the rest. It didn't get me really addicted like many webcomics have done.

There's no real point to what I'm saying, here. It's just been on my mind a few times, and this seemed like a suitable thread. I suppose it just saddens me that there are really good print comics out there, and I'll probably never read them or know what they are...

SANDMAN

BONE

NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WIND

Oh jeezum crow you're not all going to start doing this are you

[Gravity Defier]

I finished vol. 5 of Scott Pilgrim today and need to either buy, wait for the library to get, or borrow (from the internet ) vol. 6.

I laughed entirely too much at the Backstreet Boys reference made when Scott is talking to Ramona near the end, after she hacks off all her hair.

I have two more traditional novels to get through and then I can start trying to hunt down more of this comic stuff. I noticed, for instance, we have Runaways but I didn't see vol. 1; that would be something to look into when I also check on whether or not Main has vol. 1 of Sandman.

[Mich]

SANDMAN

BONE

NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WIND

I pretend they're yelling.

And, honestly, the exact reasons you cited for getting into comics being difficult is one of the main reasons I never did until it became super-easy to find digital versions online, free for downloading (if not legitimately), because it's about as hard to find a good print comic as a good webcomic, and, while my list of good webcomics is pretty long, it's but a grain of sand in an endless beach of crap.

And woo, go Alea! So much stuff in SP makes me grin and/or laugh just thinking about it, and that's one of the big ones.

[Caspian]

zeroguy, if you're actually interested in finding good comics to read, may I point you in the direction of my blog post on the subject?

[Rei]

Yelling with enthusiasm!

[zeroguy]

zeroguy, if you're actually interested in finding good comics to read

I do and I don't; webcomics alone already take up too much time IMO... but thanks. I also wouldn't consider myself someone who "hates comics", and I already know of about half of that list but... yes, thanks.

[Rei]

I am happy that there is a brief Scary Go Round related comic happening right now (more directly related than the current Bad Machinery): Giant Days.

And yes, this is also a plug for an awesome comic which has already been encouraged here, before.

[Mich]

Hobbes ol' buddy ol' pal, the only comic from your recommended list that I hadn't read (I think, I'll probably look again now that my comics-schedule is open) was Blankets. I don't really know what to say about it that tons of professional reviewers and far more awesome people than I have said, but "heartbreaking" and "touching" are probably in there, somewhere. An excellent read.

[Jayelle]

Green Lantern Trailer

I hate the CGI costume. But it looks like a fun movie. I like Green Lantern quite a bit.

[Mich]

It does look very fun. I'm not as much of a mainstream DC expert, but it seems like they got most of it there.

Of course, seeing Ryan Reynolds in a comic movie just makes me anxious for Deadpool.

[neo-dragon]

Meh. No DC heroes really capture my interest other than Batman and to a much lesser extent Superman.

[fawkes]

Picked up the Walking Dead Compendium (first 48 issues). I'm reading it kinda slowly, mostly just because it's hard to hold So far I'm really enjoying it.

[Wind Swept]

Not sure if this fits better in the movie review thread or this one, but:

I finally saw Scott Pilgrim last Friday. About five minutes in, it became my favorite movie of all time. By Monday morning, I'd finished both the game and the books, as well as watched the movie twice more. I'm completely in love with Scott Pilgrim.

Best. Graphic Novel/Video Game/Movie/Thingy. Ever.

[Caspian]

Do you guys read Atomic Robo? Because you should. You really should.

In one issue he has a gun fight with a villain who claims to be a time-travelling dinosaur genius here to overthrow mammals. Nice!

[Mich]

Dum-dee-dum, let's see.

Invincible was really good. IS really good, I guess, as it's still going on. But, up to this point, it's really good. It's by Robert Kirkman, same writer as Walking Dead, and, just like that book, it starts off kind of as a yawner, where you're reading it and thinking "how have I not read this a million times before?" And then something happens and you're like "okay, that's kind of new, and really kind of gory, what the heck?" and then it's issue 70 and it's not over. He loves playing with classic superhero tropes, and throwing references around, and is better at comedic timing and banter than half of the Spider-Man writers out there. Check it out.

Dead@17 is not so great. Luckily, the original story is only 4 issues long, so it didn't waste much time in showing me that it wasn't good. With a 4 issue miniseries, even one with several 4 issue sequels, you have a short time to show you're good or not, to make readers like the characters, to show you have an interesting mythos, and, if you're lucky, to squeeze in some character development. And only having an interesting mythos is pretty useless if your run is only 4 (8, 12, whatever) issues long.

Lost at Sea, by Bryan Lee O'Malley, the writer of Scott Pilgrim, is pretty much perfect. For me. At this time. Because I never had an existential crisis after high school, but they creep up on me sometimes, and that's what it's about. It, too, is only about 160 pages, and has a really lame back cover description, but it was good and fun and thoughtful. I like O'Malley a lot.

[neo-dragon]

This wouldn't look nearly as cool on a stereotypical, fat, comicbook geek.

[Rei]

It really wouldn't.