Confessions of a 20-something mother

[Syphon the Sun]

Confession: I never went to Pre-K.

[Luet]

Neither did I. I don't think it was that common back in my day. But my mom taught my brother and I to read before we started kindergarten.

[Gravity Defier]

Confession: I never went to Pre-K.

Same. Not only do I not believe in it as a formal institution, I think Kindergarten has gone in the wrong direction, thus affecting all grade levels thereafter in negative ways.

[megxers]

I didn't go to pre-school either. I refused to go to at least 5 pre-schools before my parents finally gave up, so I ended up spending every day playing by myself while my friend's mom mildly made sure I didn't hurt myself while all the other kids were at pre-school.

(I also begged to be home schooled and was kept in high school for "social reasons" by a guidance counselor at 15.)

[Claire]

Confession: I never went to Pre-K.

Same. Not only do I not believe in it as a formal institution, I think Kindergarten has gone in the wrong direction, thus affecting all grade levels thereafter in negative ways.

Are these responses to my post in the "things we care about" thread? I'm going to respond assuming that they are.

Preface: this is a topic I'm really passionate about and have spent a lot of time researching.

Pre-k is not the only solution, and as evidenced by the above posts, a lot of people turn out fine without it. I'm not talking about forcing everyone in to pre-school, but I am talking about spending a lot of money to improve the public pre-schools that already exist. Did you know that the most brain growth happens from age 0-5? To narrow the achievement gap, I really think this is where we need to focus. I hope you'll read the statistics I posted in the "things I care about" thread. From my research, I've come to believe that better pre-k will lead to better kindergarten and public schooling in general. I can post more and more statistics and research that I've done, but I don't know how many people would actually be interested in that.

[Luet]

I think that pre-k is very important if parents are not incredibly involved in teaching their kids at home. I was fortunate on that front but many children are not, and for them, I'm glad that there are quality preschools out there.

[LilBee91]

I didn't go to an official pre-school, but I was in some neighborhood group where we learned ABC's and such. I definitely new how to read before kindergarten though. I had two older brothers in elementary school and my best friend was two years older than me, so I was exposed to a lot of education before school. I think I benefited greatly from that. I distinctly remember learning times tables along with my friend when I was in first grade and she was in third--made it a lot easier when the time came for me to actually learn them myself.

I would be interested in some statistics and research, Claire, if you didn't mind posting.

[Gravity Defier]

Did you know that the most brain growth happens from age 0-5?

Yes - I work with children, almost always have in a paid capacity, too.

I hope you'll read the statistics I posted in the "things I care about" thread.

I did.


One of my major issues, brought up nice and early:

Pre-k helps children do better on standardized tests.

That is not a concern of mine in education. Not even close to a concern. In fact, that's my problem with the education system in general and whenever I hear that touted as a benefit or similar, my eyes glaze over.

The fact sheet listed some truly good things happening, perhaps because of going to Pre-K, but perhaps not.

Either way, I think you can add Pre-K, of any quality, to every child's educational experience and you're going to run into the same issue of teaching to tests, at every level.

Education could do with a complete overhaul and new priorities.


It's been a while since I've allowed myself to really delve into studies and reports in education -hopefully people understand why- but I had heard about the Michigan study before. I don't wish to discourage anyone from participating in Pre-K if they so desire but I wouldn't, if I had kids, allow them in it. I also don't care to get into any sort of debate over it. I have one school of thought, other people have theirs; I'm okay with that.

[Claire]

This is derailing the thread-- not sure how to approach this. Sorry everyone! The statistics I'm more concerned with though, are the social ones. I'm quoting here, so I don't think its ONLY pre-k that leads to these things, but I do think its an important contributing factor

Pre-k reduces crime and delinquency.
Pre-k lowers rates of teen pregnancy.
Pre-k leads to greater employment and higher wages as adults
Every $1 invested in high-quality pre-k saves taxpayers up to $7 (**I've actually seen this number range up to $14)
Pre-k improves efficiency and productivity in the classroom.

The website cites the studies that causes them to come to these conclusions.

Sorry-- I see that you said that you didn't want to get into any debate, and I definitely respect your opinion. I won't go any further into this.

[mr_thebrain]

pre-k should not replace good parenting....

[Gravity Defier]

Oh, everyone can ignore it. :)

I think I'm more unrealistic than anyone else on this but here's what I'd like to see:

Parental involvement reduces crime and delinquency.
Parental involvement lowers rates of teen pregnancy.
Parental involvement leads to greater employment and higher wages as adults
Every minute invested in high-quality Parental involvement saves taxpayers up to $7 (**I've actually seen this number range up to $14)
Parental involvement improves efficiency and productivity in the classroom.

If Pre-K is the next best thing, I guess it'll have to do. Even so, I think benefits would be lost unless there is follow-through parental involvement at the later stages of education. That was the big issue with behavior and performance I faced as a teacher; we did all we could in the classroom, at every level along the way, but if the parents didn't care, we couldn't do much unless the kid was naturally interested in education and also well-behaved.

We also failed our students miserably by focusing so strongly on testing, even at the K level.

[VelvetElvis]

Parenting>Pre K>no guidance

[mr_thebrain]

yay, someone shares my opinion!

[Gravity Defier]

Sorry-- I see that you said that you didn't want to get into any debate, and I definitely respect your opinion. I won't go any further into this.

Oh hey, no, no. It hasn't turned into debate yet, in my mind. I think you are approaching this much better than I am, too.

People are very much interested in the facts you've found (myself included, if for no other reason than to further my own education), so please share and if I come across as confrontational, it's not you or this, promise. :)

[neo-dragon]

I started school in grade 1. My stay-at-home mom taught me reading and other basics until then.

I secretly wonder sometimes if the late start socializing with other children caused my somewhat anti-social tendencies throughout the rest of my life so far.

But aside from that, I gotta say that I kicked a$$ academically and never got in trouble throughout my school years. Furthermore, as an educator (of much older than pre-k age kids, of course) I definitely agree that parental involvement (or at least interest) is perhaps the biggest factor relating to overall success. The kids who are failing, getting suspended regularly, are in "special" programs, or all of the above almost never have the kind of support at home which I took for granted. Don't even get me started on how many parents have begged me for advice on how to set their teenage kids straight after they've already failed them in numerous ways. I'm 27 now and was 23 when I started teaching, and these people ask me about how to raise a teenager!

[powerfulcheese04]

I think you can have parental involvement AND a great pre-K experience, which sounds even better! I plan to be very involved in my children's lives. I also plan to work full time in this career I've put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into (literally). They'll need to be somewhere while I'm at work! (And I'm not asking Nate to be a stay at home dad because he loves what he does.)

I guess I'm saying I don't see why involved parents and pre-K have to be mutually exclusive.

Edit: sometimes doing my internet-ing on my phone makes typos!

[neo-dragon]

Of course, but parents definitely should not have a mentality that it's any school's job to raise their kids for them, and I can say from personal experience that by the time the kids get to high school, many parents do seem to feel this way.

[Gravity Defier]

I guess I'm saying I don't see why involve parents and pre-K have to be mutually exclusive.

I think this is where I'm struggling to get my point across and I have absolutely no reports on hand to back me up (I would have years ago but...). But as long as that's known ahead of time, that this is no longer provable on my side, I guess there's no issue if I'm okay with having no legs to stand on.


When I said I think the education needs to be overhauled, it's because I think parents are just as much to blame sometimes in what I consider "over-educating" children. (ETA: Too much concern about their child fitting the mold, not enough concern on being active, engaged parents.)

More often than not, all this emphasis -that is being placed too strongly and way too soon, in my humble opinion- is to make sure kids are getting ahead on things that will be tested on and not things that are going to teach the kids how to be better, lifelong learners. That is what kids should be learning; not colors and mathematics and things they're going to pick up on their own schedule, when they're ready (for some, this will be young but for others, it won't be and that's okay) but on how to be curious, open to learning, how to take new information and incorporate that into their lives.

Kids are so smart and adaptable. Given the right tools (parental interest, enthusiasm, and freedom minus the stress of performing to so-called landmarks), they will do just fine and it will all even out in the end. Boys, especially, tend to need a bit more time to come around to the education system as it currently is and I hate to see them turned off to school for not being ready as early as Susie Q.

It's why I said I wouldn't send mine to Preschool. I want my kids to be kids, to learn that curiosity and imagination are just as (actually MORE) important than rote learning.

[steph]

We chose not to do preschool. As a stay-at-home mom, we felt like I could give T more of what he needed than a preschool could. It also saves us a TON of money, since preschool is ridiculously expensive. I think for some kids and some families preschool is the right choice. It wasn't the right choice for us.

[ender1]

I was in preschool, as if I remember correctly my mom worked nights and my dad worked days so my mom could get some of her sleep in while us 3 went there.
That being said, my parents didn't leave the parenting to the school and then ask what to do when we were in high school and were involved in what was happening in our education.

[zeroguy]

I secretly wonder sometimes if the late start socializing with other children caused my somewhat anti-social tendencies throughout the rest of my life so far.

Just as another anecdote: I'm pretty asocial these days, but I went to preschool, and as far as I'm aware my life was pretty standard for the early school years.

[Gravity Defier]

Let me try this again.

I think being a parent is hard. I think being an educator is hard. I think it is impossible to make sweeping statements about what's good/best for every child and their family (which I was doing, probably more than anyone else).

I don't even disagree with PreK in theory. It's the current practice of all levels, up to and including the college/university experience, that I call into question. I also think there are a lot of s***** parents out there; sorry if that's overly judgmental. In an ideal world, everyone would have the same chances and opportunities and they wouldn't have to worry about their parents' education or socio-economic status (big factors in the education gap; there are many stats out there pointing to the number of words a child hears a day and the huge difference based on parents' education/income).

I think the kids of parents who frequent this board, present and future, will be okay not because their parents will or will not send them to PreK but because their parents will care enough to follow along, period.

This is a very hard topic for me to discuss, so again, Claire, I do hope you ignore any perceived or actual bitchiness on my part. That you care about it at all is amazing to me.

[Dr. Mobius]

Preschool was pretty much a requirement for me. I had speech development problems and didn't start speaking until I was about three and a half. I needed the two years of preschool in addition to speech therapy and generally awesome parents to catch up before I entered kindergarten at 5 and continued recieving speech therapy until I was 10 or so.

[Eaquae Legit]

I think that pre-k is very important if parents are not incredibly involved in teaching their kids at home. I was fortunate on that front but many children are not, and for them, I'm glad that there are quality preschools out there.

I agree with Nomi here. I think active, involved parents are far and away the very best thing for kidlets. I suspect we all agree on that! Depending on the situation, maybe it's better for the kidlets to go to preschool and learn to socialise. Or maybe, like my mom, the parents just need a couple hours a day to get stuff done. I don't think preschool is inherently bad or good, but it's sure good to exist for parents who can't keep their kids at home for whatever reason.

It's odd, it's not something I had thought about before. I suppose it will be one of those things Rei and I deal with when it arises. For now the basic plan is for me to cart Wee Brontosaurus around with me for the first year or two.

[starlooker]

Um. Wow.

I just came in here to confess that I'm seriously torn about whether or not I want to see the new Smurfs movie.

Pros -- Neil Patrick Harris, SMURFS!
Cons -- CGI Smurfs and probably a lot of ironic humor completely undermining my really, truly, awesome memories of being insanely in love with the Smurfs as a kid. (With a Smurfs sleeping bag and a crayon holder and everything.)

Okay. Return to the intellectual discussion at hand.

[Luet]

I feel the same way about the Smurf movie! When I first heard about it, I had no desire to see it. But then, I saw the preview with NPH and I started wavering...

[LilBee91]

O no. It has NPH? Now I'm tempted. Dang it.

[Mich]

Pff, come on, ladies. I'm better. Way better than Neil.

Almost made a fake account for this, but those jokes always take so long...

[Luet]

Laaaaazy.

[LilBee91]

Confession: I may be slowly getting addicted to Wendy's french fries....

[Luet]

I would be addicted to them if I had a Wendy's closer to me.

[Petra456]

Wendy's fries dipped in a frosty, mmmmm!

[Gravity Defier]

Wendy's fries dipped in a frosty, mmmmm!

Yum. I was surprised at how good that was the first time I tried that.


I'm also ashamed to admit to some of my food kinks.

[locke]

The studies show that Pre-K can go either way actually. Some studies suggest that suggest that overly academic Pre-K can actually be destructive to a child (usually boys) because replacing play with rigor is very hard on very plastic brains (at that age) and other studies that show that academic Pre-K has excellent outcomes. I tend to think that kids should be learning, but not learning in a 'sit still and behave yourself you little monster' environment, that sort of Pre-K just tends to be very bad for brains that are developing at a different pace (it is for this reason that we shouldn't even test for gifted children until the end of second grade, at which point the development curve for young brains has leveled out, testing for gifted before that point is actually less than 50% successful at selecting kids who actually are gifted, the test just tends to select kids who are developmentally ahead, but may be quite ordinary when it comes to actual intelligence and smarts.

The Pre-K I most approve of is built around the Tools of the Mind program. While not entirely about 'play', it is about structured play, it provides a way for teachers to provide guidance and help children visualize how they're going to play (for example) Firehouse together as a large group (some of the children are firemen, some opt to be fire victims, some are 9/11 operators etc) in a way that is just incredible for brain development.

http://www.mscd.edu/extendedcampus/toolsofthemind/

I learned about the program in this book

Also, this http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2009/play/

[Petra456]

I'm also ashamed to admit to some of my food kinks.

Well now i'm just curious!? My latest one is dipping cinnamon sugar cookies in au jous. Mmmm!