Debate Thread: Round Two: Mandatory Voting
Debate Thread: Round Two: Mandatory Voting
How else can we get the true opinion of the US other than mandatory voting? So many people gripe and whine about who is in office, no matter who it is. The sheer number of these know-betters could sway any election.
Opinion polls are based on random calling, and creative statistics. Opinion polls don't cut it. Something like the US presidential election of 2000 'race for Florida' would be less likely to happen.
Opinion polls are based on random calling, and creative statistics. Opinion polls don't cut it. Something like the US presidential election of 2000 'race for Florida' would be less likely to happen.
...but paranoia is all I have!!
-
- Toon Leader
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:03 pm
How can we get the true opinion of the United States from uninformed voters who go to the polls and pull the lever for their party without doing any research?
Maybe we should make people pass a test about the candidates before voting, too, so we ensure that only informed people vote.
/sarcasm
Mandatory voting isn't the way to combat voter apathy--it's just a way to pretend it doesn't exist. The way to combat voter apathy is to make people want to vote.
At the end of the day, the vote is a right that everyone has, and it's a way to make a difference. If people choose not to take advantage of that right, that is their choice. We can't force people to be responsible.
I think it's also idiotic to make people who are abstaining from the vote because they hate all the candidates choose one to vote for.
Maybe we should make people pass a test about the candidates before voting, too, so we ensure that only informed people vote.
/sarcasm
Mandatory voting isn't the way to combat voter apathy--it's just a way to pretend it doesn't exist. The way to combat voter apathy is to make people want to vote.
At the end of the day, the vote is a right that everyone has, and it's a way to make a difference. If people choose not to take advantage of that right, that is their choice. We can't force people to be responsible.
I think it's also idiotic to make people who are abstaining from the vote because they hate all the candidates choose one to vote for.
-
- Toon Leader
- Posts: 1547
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:22 pm
- Title: The same thing we do every night...
- First Joined: 0- 7-2000
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
i have to agree with jeebsy on that one.
my future wife doesn't vote in her country. fine... that's canada. unfortunately she plans on retaining that mentality after she moves here. it bugs the crap out of me. It is going to be hard enough to convince her to become a full fledged citizen (she's stubborn and doesn't want to hear about the benefits)
anyway, it'll be harder still to convince her to vote. she's annoyingly one of those people that like to bitch about who's in office and what they do. but won't vote to prevent the person from being re-elected. she has a screwed up way of looking at things though and i can only hope she'll see reason someday.
she, like so many others, is the type of person who feels two ways: there is no definate good choice (which is true enough but not a reason to avoid voting) and that her one vote will do no good. (which is a very frustrating point of view)
i blame her family. they are a f****** up bunch of jackasses.
my future wife doesn't vote in her country. fine... that's canada. unfortunately she plans on retaining that mentality after she moves here. it bugs the crap out of me. It is going to be hard enough to convince her to become a full fledged citizen (she's stubborn and doesn't want to hear about the benefits)
anyway, it'll be harder still to convince her to vote. she's annoyingly one of those people that like to bitch about who's in office and what they do. but won't vote to prevent the person from being re-elected. she has a screwed up way of looking at things though and i can only hope she'll see reason someday.
she, like so many others, is the type of person who feels two ways: there is no definate good choice (which is true enough but not a reason to avoid voting) and that her one vote will do no good. (which is a very frustrating point of view)
i blame her family. they are a f****** up bunch of jackasses.
Ubernaustrum
-
- Toon Leader
- Posts: 1547
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:22 pm
- Title: The same thing we do every night...
- First Joined: 0- 7-2000
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
here's a good idea: giant poster with a picture of bush (one with one of his dumb expressions would be best) with the text "prevent this sort of thing from happening ever again! register to vote today!Mandatory voting isn't the way to combat voter apathy--it's just a way to pretend it doesn't exist. The way to combat voter apathy is to make people want to vote.
Ubernaustrum
Now that is something that I'd really like to see happening! No sarcasm. If the votes of the undecided skew the results, they do so randomly.Maybe we should make people pass a test about the candidates before voting, too, so we ensure that only informed people vote.
/sarcasm
The votes of the uninformed skew the results in a much worse manner. And that’s because they vote expecting something that is not even promised in the first place.
Not that believing the promises would help. Seeing behind the "nice story" that the candidates sell, there's the true result and the benefit of any poll.
A.
It's all just a matter of interpretation.
-
- Speaker for the Dead
- Posts: 2539
- Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 pm
- Title: Stayin' Alive
- First Joined: 17 Aug 2002
- Location: Evansville, IN
There are people who would never allow a test to be required to vote.
Here, they're trying to pass a law that would require you to have a state-issued photo ID to vote, as a means to curb voter fraud. However there's people against it. Evidently, $5 is too expensive for the handfull of people who don't already have a driver's license or the non-driver ID card.
Here, they're trying to pass a law that would require you to have a state-issued photo ID to vote, as a means to curb voter fraud. However there's people against it. Evidently, $5 is too expensive for the handfull of people who don't already have a driver's license or the non-driver ID card.
The enemy's fly is down.
By instituting manditory voting, you are changing the very freedom that America was founded on.
In a free country, there must be freedom to choose NOT to vote.
Epi's Anime Blog:
http://www.animeslice.com
http://www.animeslice.com
-
- KillEvilBanned
- Posts: 2512
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
- Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
The fact is that the purpose of public education was originally (and ostesibly, still is) to educate people to make them good voters. I wonder what the hell happened in the 150+ years since the beginning of a national public education system. It's not encouraging that things have gone downhill so quickly.
- neo-dragon
- Commander
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:26 pm
- Title: Huey Revolutionary
- Location: Canada
- Jebus
- Toon Leader
- Posts: 1300
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:53 pm
- Title: Lord and Saviour
- First Joined: 07 Nov 2001
Well, I think the argument in favour of it is that it helps transform a society into a more politically conscious one with time.What the hell is the point of mandatory voting? Having people vote for the sake of voting doesn't help ensure that the will of the people comes to pass. Choosing not to vote is a better expression of one's will than voting for a candidate because you had to vote for someone.
-
- Commander
- Posts: 2741
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:29 pm
- Title: 01111010 01100111
- First Joined: 0- 8-2001
- Location: Where you least expect me.
- Contact:
Nobody has really defined "mandatory" in this sense. That is, what would the penalty for not voting be? I believe Australia has some kind of system set up where you have to pay a fine if you do not vote. Even as someone who abstains from voting practically every chance I get, I wouldn't really mind all that much if it were just a fine.
Proud member of the Canadian Alliance.
dgf hhw
dgf hhw
While I see the merits of this choice, it is decidedly not a good idea. Too many people who either can't read, can't read/speak English well, are bad test-takers, etc., will be excluded. It essentially violates the same principle of freedom that forcing people to vote would: all mentally competent (e.g. no dementia or retardation), unjailed American adults have the right to vote. They can choose to, or they can choose not to, as long as they're citizens. Otherwise you create a privileged ruling class or the beginnings of a totalitarian system. It's not perfect, but it's about as good a balance as you can get.Now that is something that I'd really like to see happening! No sarcasm. If the votes of the undecided skew the results, they do so randomly.Maybe we should make people pass a test about the candidates before voting, too, so we ensure that only informed people vote.
/sarcasm
The votes of the uninformed skew the results in a much worse manner. And that’s because they vote expecting something that is not even promised in the first place.
Not that believing the promises would help. Seeing behind the "nice story" that the candidates sell, there's the true result and the benefit of any poll.
A.
"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"
- Young Val
- Commander
- Posts: 3166
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
- Title: Papermaster
- First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
- Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
- Contact:
...what would these "tests" be on? candidate's age? party? scandalous past? who administers this test? how is it graded?
resticting the right to vote based on whether or not the voter in question passes a test?
this idea is ridiculous.
resticting the right to vote based on whether or not the voter in question passes a test?
this idea is ridiculous.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
-
- Toon Leader
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:03 pm
Oh, please. Things have not gone "downhill." They're not in a good place right now, but I hate it when people misrepresent this sort of thing. 150 years ago, a huge percentage of our children did not go to school because they could not speak English, and were poor. 100 years ago, many were working in factories. 50 years ago, they were being taught to *hide under their desks* in case of a nuclear attack. Teachers were still fired because they tried to teach practical sex ed. Et cetera.The fact is that the purpose of public education was originally (and ostesibly, still is) to educate people to make them good voters. I wonder what the hell happened in the 150+ years since the beginning of a national public education system. It's not encouraging that things have gone downhill so quickly.
So, while I am *not* defending our current system, it's like it's spiraled downhill.
-
- Soldier
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:04 pm
- Location: Command School, Eros
Exactly, it sounds WAY too like the history of China to me...and I'd rather not have that......what would these "tests" be on? candidate's age? party? scandalous past? who administers this test? how is it graded?
resticting the right to vote based on whether or not the voter in question passes a test?
this idea is ridiculous.
- Young Val
- Commander
- Posts: 3166
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
- Title: Papermaster
- First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
- Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
- Contact:
Yes, but 150 years ago, people who had been educated in the public education system were well informed citizens, capable of voting well. Now, I'm not so sure about that.
....what?
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
- Young Val
- Commander
- Posts: 3166
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
- Title: Papermaster
- First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
- Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
- Contact:
if this is your view and you're stickin' by it, you're gonna have to back it up.150 years ago it did.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
-
- Toon Leader
- Posts: 1547
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:22 pm
- Title: The same thing we do every night...
- First Joined: 0- 7-2000
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
- neo-dragon
- Commander
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:26 pm
- Title: Huey Revolutionary
- Location: Canada
- Young Val
- Commander
- Posts: 3166
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
- Title: Papermaster
- First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
- Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
- Contact:
I don't know how to back it up. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my perception. If you have evidence to the contrary I'll back down, but I'm sticking with it for now.
i don't really care over-much at this point, but as it isn't my position, it's not my responsibility to prove or disprove it. it's all well and good to voice your opinions, and you should. i'm all about that.
but if you're going to make such an inflamatory remark in a "formal" (i use that term loosely here) debate, and state it so factually, you ought to back it up.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
-
- KillEvilBanned
- Posts: 2512
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm
- Location: North Plains, OR (read Portland)
Everything I say is said from my point of view, and unless I explicitly say it is fact, it should be interpreted as such, because I am often wrong. However, I will edit to point out that that is my view of American public education.
---Edit---
Actually, I don't need to edit any of them. In every case i said "I think" or "in my view." Not a single one was stated as fact.
What I did state as fact was that the education system was started to make citizens good voters, which I heard my US History teacher say yesterday in class, and is a widely accepted fact.
---Edit---
Actually, I don't need to edit any of them. In every case i said "I think" or "in my view." Not a single one was stated as fact.
What I did state as fact was that the education system was started to make citizens good voters, which I heard my US History teacher say yesterday in class, and is a widely accepted fact.
- Young Val
- Commander
- Posts: 3166
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:00 pm
- Title: Papermaster
- First Joined: 12 Sep 2000
- Location: from New York City to St. Paul, MN (but I'm a Boston girl at heart).
- Contact:
Everything I say is said from my point of view, and unless I explicitly say it is fact, it should be interpreted as such, because I am often wrong. However, I will edit to point out that that is my view of American public education.
---Edit---
Actually, I don't need to edit any of them. In every case i said "I think" or "in my view." Not a single one was stated as fact.
What I did state as fact was that the education system was started to make citizens good voters, which I heard my US History teacher say yesterday in class, and is a widely accepted fact.
no; i understand that it's your view. i'm sorry if the word "factually" was misused in my case. replace with "authoratively" and perhaps that's much closer to the meaning i intended.
but that's not the point. whether it is fact or opinion, you ought to back it up. it's such a bold statement, providing no sources or context for it whatsoever is ...
well.
i suppose this isn't actually a formal debate. so i suppose you can voice your opinions with or without supporting evidence if you like.
(damnit, why can't i just keep my mouth shut?)
the first sentence there is presented as fact. i'm not saying it is fact or that you mean to claim it's fact. but you state it rather "factually" (now to be changed to "authoratively" so as not to be nitpicky...which i have already been).Yes, but 150 years ago, people who had been educated in the public education system were well informed citizens, capable of voting well. Now, I'm not so sure about that.
i should just stay out of these threads.
you snooze, you lose
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
well I have snozzed and lost
I'm pushing through
I'll disregard the cost
I hear the bells
so fascinating and
I'll slug it out
I'm sick of waiting
and I can
hear the bells are
ringing joyful and triumphant
Return to “Milagre Town Square”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 34 guests