...so the rest of the world would be empty?

[Jayelle]

Recently, Bill O'Reilly commented (when talking about illegal imigrants) that:

"There are 6 billion people in the world and all of them want to live in America."

We do?

Seriously? Is that what an average American thinks? That we all want to live in your country?



(ps I'm sorry I can't seem to find a clip of the show, I'll keep looking)

[Dr. Mobius]

While I doubt he was being 100% serious with that remark, the general consensus around here is that Bill O'Reilly is a bigger idiot than the average talking head.

[anonshadow]

That's certainly not what I think... I think that most of the world looks down on America because Americans are often self-centered environmentally-challenged assholes.

[Soara]

I don't want to live in the US. In fact, I'd like to live in Mexico.... but that's just me.

Bill O'Reily is kind of dopey. Jon Steward is much more reliable.

[eriador]

^Stewart^

I know I wouldn't want to live in America if I really had the choice.

Anyway, he needs to work on his numbers. As we speak (I type) the population is ~6.658 billion. That means that outside of America there are ~6.358 billion. So O'Reilly's number is low by 358 million people.

Darn conservatives, can't get anything right [/disgust] ()

[Oliver Dale]

Wow. Come on people, don't be ridiculous. (I don't mean you, Jayelle, who asked an honest question.) Many here seem to be displaying the exact same vitriol you so rapidly condemn Americans of having (from the safe vantage point of claiming that "most of the world" feels that way).

Especially within the context of talking about illegal aliens, it seems logical to assume Mr. O'Reilly was using hyperbole to prove a point. There are many, many more people that want to move into the United States than we currently allow (for whatever reason).

[Eaquae Legit]

[off topic]

Eriador, please shrink your avatar some. It is very large and stretches things unpleasantly.

[mr_thebrain]

seconded

[Bevis]

Seriously? Is that what an average American thinks? That we all want to live in your country?

The average american I've talked with doesn't seem to concerned with what the rest of the world wants. I've brought up the topic of 'the rest of the worlds opinion on the USA' with several people at work, usually inspired by some newsworthy event. Almost always, wether as a nation we're being looked on with a negative or positive light, the imidiate response is the international community's opinions are irrelevant.

[mr_thebrain]

i think the reason for that is simply that the common person has very little to do with the state of U.S. affairs. whether the opinion is negative or positive doesn't matter a whole lot. Most of the negative is due to our president... someone that a lot of us americans aren't all that thrilled with either. A lot of people use bias and prejudice and lack of information to form opinions on the U.S.. and heck, most people don't seem to realize that just about all of the negative things are temporary. not to mention that a lot of foreign opinion is actually knee jerk reaction to our jackass president. yeah, it's hard to care all that much about others opinions.

anyway, when you set aside our foreign relations and figure heads and live here... it's a rather nice place to live. one of the best places in the world to live. granted, i'm from wisconsin. i don't deal with a lot of the things in this nation that make national news. it's quiet and lovely here. however, knowing what i know about my nation, and having lived here, and spent a good deal of time abroad as well, i can say with absolute certainty that i would not want to live anywhere else but the united states. there's just something about this country. perhaps it's a love/hate thing, but it's something.

i also find it rather funny that a lot of the nations that look down on us aren't all that much different or better than us. yes, even you, canada.

I can't say everyone wants to live here. duh. however, with the current, and upcoming immigration issues, (something i am following very closely considering i have to get my fiancee into the country) there are a whole lot of people coming to this country. more each day. USCIS is overworked and it's about to get even worse. soon they will make all the illegal immigrants file. this will essentially double the workload that they normally have to deal with. (instead of 6 million a year, it'll be more like 12 million new cases starting sometime probably next year) that's a whole lot of work for their 4 offices.

no, not everyone wants to live here. but a great deal of people do. from each and every country.

also, bill o'reilly is a jackass, and i don't know anyone who would actually listen, or care for his opinion.

[Jayelle]

i also find it rather funny that a lot of the nations that look down on us aren't all that much different or better than us. yes, even you, canada.

This is my point. I don't think that America is a bad place to live at all, I just think that it's pretty much the same as many other countries. Canada has plenty of immigrants, too.

also, bill o'reilly is a jackass, and i don't know anyone who would actually listen, or care for his opinion.

I'm well aware of who Bill O'Reilly is and I know that he was using hyperbole... but I was curious if it was a common opinion that everyone else in the world is living in a rotton country and wants to move to America.

[Slim]

No, We know that Canadians don't want to live here, they just want to invade.

And the average American doesn't care what goes on in other countries, as long as they can get a big raise at work, and they don't have to pay too much at the pump.

Seriously though, I've met Americans who don't want to live here. If it isn't pleasing to everyone who is already here, why would it be for everyone else who doesn't know how great it is?

[peterlocke123]

Damn conservatives, can't get anything right [/disgust]

Eriador, I find that fairly insulting. Could you please edit it somehow. I know you don't like us Republican Conservatives, but honestly, tone it down a bit. Thanks

[mr_thebrain]

don't listen to him! don't give in to the conservative side!

[eriador]

Thanks for the support mr_thebrain.

peterlocke, the [/disgust] tag was meant to convey a toungue-in-cheek attitude, in other words I WAS JOKING. Please, don't be so sensitive. However, I will make it more obvious so that nobody else is offended by what was intended as good-natured humor.

Edit: I was also picking up on such a tiny issue that it seemed (to me) to be pretty obvious that I was kidding.

[AnthonyByakko]

To be perfectly honest with you, I like O'Reilly. Ever since The No Spin Zone I've read every book he's penned, and been pleased with the time spent. The soundbite mentality of most people in the modern age really turns a lot of people off to him, but it's their loss.

To Jayelle's original point, I would say it's a legitimate statement of frustration on the part of one American and his exhasperation at both his government's inability to curb the influx of illegal immigrants and other nation's lackadaisacal attitude towards their citizens entering the U.S. I mean, I can't be the only one who remembers back awhile ago when the Mexican government furnished people with handbooks on how to enter and stay in America illegally. The rest of the world may not all want to live in America, but many of them do, or at the very least, be able to live like they could in America. And despite it's (massive) shortcomings, America has a bad rap like none other. I mean, just look at some of the generalisations made about Americans in this thread alone. As an American, I'd be deathly afraid of travelling to another country and letting the locals know I was from the States (like other Americans, I might just say I was from Canada). And this is through no fault of my own, I mean what have I done to piss off citizens of other nations?

[eriador]

To be perfectly honest with you, I like O'Reilly. Ever since The No Spin Zone I've read every book he's penned, and been pleased with the time spent. The soundbite mentality of most people in the modern age really turns a lot of people off to him, but it's their loss.

I don't understand how you can. To me, Bill O'Reilly seems like a really mean, angry guy. If you like him, get ahold of him being intervied by Terry (sp?) Gross, from NPR's Fresh Air. That interview sums up Bill O'Reilly for me.

The rest of the world may not all want to live in America, but many of them do, or at the very least, be able to live like they could in America.

Yeah, everybody wants to live the glamourous life of an illegal immigrant in America.

And despite it's (massive) shortcomings, America has a bad rap like none other. I mean, just look at some of the generalisations made about Americans in this thread alone. As an American, I'd be deathly afraid of travelling to another country and letting the locals know I was from the States (like other Americans, I might just say I was from Canada). And this is through no fault of my own, I mean what have I done to piss off citizens of other nations?

Who did you vote for?
The fact is, every time I've been out of the country during the Bush administration, the locals were very welcoming when they heard that we disliked the current government. It's not America people dislike, its George Bush, and, by extension, his supporters.

[mr_thebrain]

Yeah, everybody wants to live the glamourous life of an illegal immigrant in America.

yeah... they have it sooooo bad here. yes, that was sarcasm. see, i know how to use it too! anyway, there are a lot of concessions given to the average illegal immigrant in this country. they really have it pretty good. aside from dealing with the uscis.

The fact is, every time I've been out of the country during the Bush administration, the locals were very welcoming when they heard that we disliked the current government. It's not America people dislike, its George Bush, and, by extension, his supporters.

i have to agree with you there. although you always have to go through the arguments and bitching and harassment before you can convince them that you also dislike your president. i think in order for foreigners to feel alright about bitching about the U.S. they have to assume that we all love bush and our country's policies. then when they find out that we don't like them either, they sheepishly have to accept us.

[eriador]

Yeah, everybody wants to live the glamourous life of an illegal immigrant in America.

yeah... they have it sooooo bad here. yes, that was sarcasm. see, i know how to use it too! anyway, there are a lot of concessions given to the average illegal immigrant in this country. they really have it pretty good. aside from dealing with the uscis.

Well, I know several immigrants, and have heard many stories about how hard it is in the US for illegal immigrants. Even though the people I know are pretty well off, they are by no means living an ideal life.

P.S. Uscis??

[mr_thebrain]

USCIS: United States Citizenship and Immigration Services

No such thing as INS anymore.

pretty much the only good thing to come out of homeland security.

yes, they are pretty well off. and no, it's not an ideal life. but really how many people can claim that they are living an ideal life. the fact of the matter is that there are illegal immigrants living better in the US than some citizens.

[Reticent]

Truth is I actually know a lot of people who think this. I personally don't. These are the same people who make statements like "I don't care if we torture people, they would do the same to us if given the chance, and I want to feel secure and safe" and "The world is flat."

[mr_thebrain]

i never said all illegal immigrants

[eriador]

The fact is, that illegal immigrants get s*** on by american society. Especially where I live, illegal immigrants are underpayed, work really hard in crummy jobs and are disliked by many people. I would not like to be an illegal immigrant here. Maybe it's worse wherever they came from, but still, it is in now way a good life.

[Bevis]

Where I live many citizens get sh!t on and are disliked. This is a part of life.

I also know quite a few who get underpayed to work really hard in crummy jobs. See above.

Lastly, nobody should want to be an illegal immigrant here. Residing in the US illegally is taking advantage of a flawed but mostly decent system. Like that jerk that couldn't keep his mouth shut during reading time in 2nd grade, they're just ruining it for everybody else.

[eriador]

How are illegal immigrants "ruining it for everybody else," I'd like some examples.

[AnthonyByakko]

I don't understand how you can. To me, Bill O'Reilly seems like a really mean, angry guy. If you like him, get ahold of him being intervied by Terry (sp?) Gross, from NPR's Fresh Air. That interview sums up Bill O'Reilly for me.

I'm a really mean, angry guy too, so I can relate. A lot of things today make me angry - my government trying to tell me what's best for me, millions of people coming into my country illegally, not paying into the tax burden and yet still being able to attend our schools for free and vote, schools zombifying young people, TV and movies telling us that it's okay to kill but sex is obscene, the list goes on and on. If you're a journalist, or a political analyst or really anyone who cares at all, and you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention. You should be angry at some things, and since Bill O'Reilly's show is about those things, it's natural that he's angry. When I listen to NPR's sanitized, deadpan topics I feel only apathy. But O'Reilly, regardless of whether I agree with a given topic he's discussing, gets me motivated about it.

Yeah, everybody wants to live the glamourous life of an illegal immigrant in America.

You mean, glamourous as opposed to the bone-grinding poverty and abject suffering of their native country, right? Right? And by the way, I voted for Nader. I would never support either a Republican or a Democrat for President (with the possible exception of John McCain, who I have respect for.) I'm not a conservative or a liberal, but I have some conservative views and some liberal ones. Mostly, I would consider myself a constitutionalist.

How are illegal immigrants "ruining it for everybody else," I'd like some examples.

You mean, by not paying taxes, breaking federal laws, giving immigrant workers a bad image, working jobs that might otherwise be done by people who came in legally, etc? Are you awake in there?

[Oliver Dale]

You mean, by not paying taxes, breaking federal laws, giving immigrant workers a bad image, working jobs that might otherwise be done by people who came in legally, etc? Are you awake in there?

This thought seems reasonable, but also inchoate. For example, illegal immigrants do indeed pay taxes. They pay taxes when they purchase things, when they secure services, actually, they pay all the same taxes that legal citizens do except for income taxes. But to be honest, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are earning wages below the poverty level, which, according to current tax laws, would be entirely tax free anyway.

The only federal laws that you can be sure they are committing are those that they are breaking simply by virtue of being here. That's a bit cyclical. You're using the fact that they break laws to support the existence of those laws themselves. I'm not sure what bad image you're referring to, other than the one you (and your ilk) are projecting on them, so I can't comment. But as for the other jobs, most Americans wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot Welfare check.

[Luet]

TV and movies telling us that it's okay to kill but sex is obscene

What shows and movies are YOU watching? I think media promotes a fairly liberal view of sex. I could find some statistics if you don't believe me...for example, the number of instances of sexual contact between unmarried people shown in a positive light on tv.[/quote]

[AnthonyByakko]

This thought seems reasonable, but also inchoate. For example, illegal immigrants do indeed pay taxes. They pay taxes when they purchase things, when they secure services, actually, they pay all the same taxes that legal citizens do except for income taxes. But to be honest, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are earning wages below the poverty level, which, according to current tax laws, would be entirely tax free anyway.

Accepted. Now income taxes are nothing to sneeze at. Whereas $150 a week is cut out of my pay, $0 is cut from their (granted, minimal) pay. I'm not a "close-down-the-border" or "build-a-wall" person when it comes to immigration, but it would seem that immigrants have no incentive to use the "front-door" when they can just sneak through a window. I'm aware that the low-income jobs done by many immigrants are distasteful to many of us "rich" Americans, but clandestine entrance into the country means that a Mexican (or Honduran, or Guatemalen) Ted Bundy might be doing them, and we wouldn't know jack about it. Wanting to live (and, by extension, work) in this country is a noble idea, but the American government's number one priority is to maintain and uphold the Constitution of the United States - namely, the safety and security of its citizens and the protection of their liberties. Neither of which is served by a porous border with a nation packed with murderous drug gangs where sneaking into our country is an accepted aspect of the culture.

What shows and movies are YOU watching? I think media promotes a fairly liberal view of sex. I could find some statistics if you don't believe me...for example, the number of instances of sexual contact between unmarried people shown in a positive light on tv

Isn't it something like a million murders shown to a person on TV by the time their an adult? And while our "media" is indeed becoming more and more liberal (including in regards to sex), our Puritan-based culture has for the longest time believed in the evil nature of sex. I mean, you can go to the movies right now and watch people being mutilated and murdered in Saw III (or really, anything other than the romance movies out) and these movies warrant nothing more than "R" - when was the last time you saw someone naked in a movie? What I mean to say is, it's "ok" here to show the human form being ripped apart, stabbed, shot, burned or otherwise killed, but the human form sans clothing is something you just aren't allowed to see on TV or in a movie without strict regulation.

[zeroguy]

Isn't it something like a million murders shown to a person on TV by the time their an adult?

Unless you're Calvin, and have been watching all the wrong shows.

[AnthonyByakko]

Well, he signed it. And by "he" I mean President Bush, and by "it" I mean the border bill.

To me, a 700 mile partition of a 2,000 mile border is kind of a busy-work piece of BS. I know I've been the one arguing against illegal immigration so far, but what does he (or anyone) expect from this bill?

[hive_king]

when was the last time you saw someone naked in a movie?

Titanic.

[AnthonyByakko]

Right. And that was like, what, 10 years ago? When was the last time you saw someone killed in a movie? For me, it was yesterday - I watched Silent Hill again, and watched people being exploded from within with barbed wire, having their skin ripped off, being cut in half with giant blades, all kinds of death.

[Luet]

If you notice, I didn't say nudity, I said sex. I agree that our society/media still has a very prudish view of the human body and nudity which is ridiculous considering the liberal view it takes as regards to sex. What I am saying is that on regular, non-cable TV there is an overwhelming number of instances of sexual contact (usually in a positive light and more often than not between unmarried people) either directly shown or referred to. That is not puritanical. It doesn't need to be pornagraphic to be highly suggestive and sexual.

I think maybe what you meant in your initial statement is that TV and movies are telling us that it's okay to kill but NUDITY is obscene. Not sex. Because there's tons of that everywhere.

[eriador]

I don't understand how you can. To me, Bill O'Reilly seems like a really mean, angry guy. If you like him, get ahold of him being intervied by Terry (sp?) Gross, from NPR's Fresh Air. That interview sums up Bill O'Reilly for me.

I'm a really mean, angry guy too, so I can relate. A lot of things today make me angry - my government trying to tell me what's best for me, millions of people coming into my country illegally, not paying into the tax burden and yet still being able to attend our schools for free and vote, schools zombifying young people, TV and movies telling us that it's okay to kill but sex is obscene, the list goes on and on. If you're a journalist, or a political analyst or really anyone who cares at all, and you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention. You should be angry at some things, and since Bill O'Reilly's show is about those things, it's natural that he's angry. When I listen to NPR's sanitized, deadpan topics I feel only apathy. But O'Reilly, regardless of whether I agree with a given topic he's discussing, gets me motivated about it.

The interview I was referring to was not a "sanatized, deadpan topic" but a really fiery interview. You should listen to it.

Yeah, everybody wants to live the glamourous life of an illegal immigrant in America.

You mean, glamourous as opposed to the bone-grinding poverty and abject suffering of their native country, right? Right? And by the way, I voted for Nader. I would never support either a Republican or a Democrat for President (with the possible exception of John McCain, who I have respect for.) I'm not a conservative or a liberal, but I have some conservative views and some liberal ones. Mostly, I would consider myself a constitutionalist.

That is a bit of an overgeneralization. Just because it isn't America doesnt mean that everybody lives in "bone-grinding poverty and abject suffering".

I don't see how your political views have any bearing on this.

How are illegal immigrants "ruining it for everybody else," I'd like some examples.

You mean, by not paying taxes, breaking federal laws, giving immigrant workers a bad image, working jobs that might otherwise be done by people who came in legally, etc? Are you awake in there?

Right. That is blatantly untrue. Every single illeagal I know
wants to pay taxes, doesn't break any law (except for immigration laws), generally work as hard as they can to present a good image, and work jobs that specificly hire migrant laborers or most legal citizens don't want to do.