School Proxys

[CezeN]

I need a new proxy to use websites like myspace, gamewebsites, and wikipedia at school.
I used to use this uberawesome one called kankan.myftp.biz
Especially good since its in a foriegn language and it has different IP servers or whatever you can use for the proxy. It lasted for a year and a half without the school system catching it.
Please, i need help.

[Syphon the Sun]

There's a reason they banned those websites. It's in your best interest to just leave it alone. You've already been caught once and if you think they're not watching what you're doing, you're in for a surprise.

After four years of dicking around with the security system at my high school, they had enough of it and called me in. Granted, I got offered a job fixing their s*** after my week-long vacation, and it never went on my permanent record, but still.

I was just so "cool" sticking it to the man. And what did it accomplish? In order to save his own ass, one of my friends flipped on me. We didn't talk for several years. I finally forgave him and invited him to my wedding; he died one month later. I was immature and liked the game of cat-and-mouse. But, really, it wasn't worth it.

So, just deal with the fact that you can't go to those sites at school. The school has computers and internet access for educational purposes. The rest of your internet use is reserved for home.

Just think about it.

[CezeN]

I disagree. I havent been caught, just the school systems caught on to the proxy. Which happens to be the second one that I have used. The first one lasted a week. Im not messing with the school system or whatever like you were doing, proxys dont do that. Im just bypassing the bans for myself. Also, the school blocks dumb websites even ones that the teacher uses. I havent done anything to the system that would need fixing. Proxys dont really mess them up. AND Im not trying to stick it to the man.
Thanks but no thanks.

[neo-dragon]

But is there a reason why you actually need to access those sites at school? Maybe you could simply respect the school's policy and stay off them.

[Gravity Defier]

it never went on my permanent record

Are those real in IL?


I mean, I know schools keep files on students...but around here it was mostly just state test results, learning disabilities, copy of birth cert, etc. Even when a kid was particularly bad, all we did was stick a carbon copy of the referral in the file but it was hardly of the permanent nature.

The high schools around here sure liked mentioning permanent records but no one really believed in them.



And, this is going to sound cold and bitchy, but Michael, I doubt your case is the norm...not everyone gets caught and not everyone loses friends over this sort of thing.

With that said, I agree that they're blocked for a reason. If you can't wait until you get home, that's your problem. If your teacher can't make do without some of these sites, they're a bad teacher or at the very least, not very resourceful (which still kinda makes them bad...that job requires thinking on your feet).

[Syphon the Sun]

Cez,
*rolls eyes* I never said you were messing with the system. I related my own experience to you. However, as I said, there is a reason the school blocks access to those websites, whether you agree with their reasoning or not.

And if you truly believe that the administrators don't know what you're doing, despite the fact that twice the proxies you were using were banned after your using them, you've got a lot to learn.

You're most certainly breaking the internet agreement forms that every student has to sign to get access at school. What that means for you, since you probably haven't thought about the consequences, is that the school may (at any time they feel like it) restrict (to any degree, including permanently banning) your internet access at the school. All because you just had to check your Myspace at school.

Like I said, you're at school. The computers are there for educational purposes. They're not there for your personal or social needs. That's what home computers or public internet access sites are for. You don't have the right to use others' private property however you wish. (In fact, really gung-ho superintendents would have the legal grounds to claim intentional tortious trespass.)

Like I said: just deal with it. Wait a few hours to check your myspace, or e-mail, or read a wikipedia article. Is it really that big of an issue to wait?

Personally, I know of several proxy servers that you could use. I probably know other ways of getting around the school's blocks without even using a proxy. But I'm not going to help you. Partially because people need to learn self-control, partially because aiding you makes a third-party just as legally liable to the school, and partially because it's for your own good.

It doesn't matter, though. Nobody is going to change your mind. You'll just keep doing whatever you want because you think you know best. Someday, though, you'll figure it out.

ETA:
Alea,
Yes, in Illinois, permanent records are very real. Although, they tend to not be all that permanent. Something like ten years tends to be the norm.

And when it comes to professional organizations (like, say, the Bar Association), they're very important. I know of people who, because of some indiscretions in high school, had trouble with the Character and Fitness Board when trying to take the Bar Exam. And, if they're bad enough, it could keep you from taking the Bar altogether, which means all that money you sank into a legal education (the average is around $80,000 currently) is wasted.

And I know that my case isn't the norm. But he's already admitted that they've found and blocked what he was using twice. To think that an administrator doesn't know what he's doing, or isn't watching him carefully, now, is more than a little silly. At this point, its time to quit while you're behind, because you will never be able to get ahead.

[neo-dragon]

(sigh) Kids today...

They can't make it through a school day without some form of electronic entertainment and they honestly don't seem to understand that this is a real problem. Every single day of my teaching career thus far it's, "no, you can't listen to your iPod while I'm teaching. No, you can't send text messages during class (even if you're replying to your mom, who really should get a f****** clue and not be calling or texting you while you're in class ). No, you can't play your psp either. And no, you can't play Halo when I give you a period in the computer lab to do research." I don't even know how they managed that last one. It's like they think that it's their inalienable right to have access to entertainment at all times.

[/rant]

[Gravity Defier]

(sigh) Kids today...

You are going to be an awesome old person.

Your rant gave me warm fuzzies, remembering how disloyal my students were to each other; all I had to do was earn their trust and they'd rat on their best friend for me (which, they often did and found hilarious) when they tried to text or listen to music in class.

[Wil]

I'm with both Syphon and neo on this one. You're at school to learn, so learn. Not to browse the internet, not to chat to friends, not to play games, but to LEARN. Not only is it distracting to you, but to those that can see what you are doing as well. If you want to do that then just don't go to class.

Kids (hell, I'm just BEYOND a kid, but this has bugged me for such a long time) seem to have no ability for patience and quiet these days. It has become nigh on impossible to sit still, in quiet, in class, in the waiting room, for lengths of time. They must always be busy, always doing something. Even something as simple as driving down the road must be filled with talking or chatting. Even something as simple as waiting for class to start must be filled with entertainment. Even just WALKING must be filled with music or cellphones. They have no patience and no will to remain still or quiet. Every waking moment must be filled with entertainment, and sometimes even the moments between wake and sleep must be filled with music, and if they have no entertainment they act as if it is physically painful and unbearable to do nothing. It is pathetic and weak, and I abhor people that are that incapable of being alone to their own thoughts.

[Jayelle]

Sorry Cezen, you asked this on a board where there are people on the side of your teachers instead of on yours!

Kind of ironic, considering the hacking in our "favourite" book.

[steph]

I'm old enough that the computers at my school didn't even have internet access until my senior year (although I'd had it at home for *many* years prior to that), and even then the internet was pretty boring, so I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. Sorry!

[Gravity Defier]

Wil: I'm not sure what parts to quote, so I won't even bother.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said on being able to be quiet/sit still or being able to be alone with your thoughts in general, outside of school.

But in a classroom, yes, they do have to be busy at all times and I preferred it not to be quiet beyond the average needed think time (9-15 seconds). Busy means less trouble from kids and quiet typically meant preoccupied with thoughts unrelated to class.

We had this 1-2-5 rule at my school. As often as you could, you should only lecture for one minute, have the kids discuss the new learning for two, and then do some sort of activity for five. It wasn't always possible or the right thing to do but I am strongly of the opinion that there shouldn't be any teaching at any pre-college level that requires a student to sit still for all of a class period without being able to talk about or demonstrate their learning unless it was a testing day. When kids are more active in their education, they tend to learn it better or remember it longer. Not to mention, the old method of just lecturing only caters to one type of learner whereas varying things made it possible to reach many different learners.

I don't think you were saying otherwise, but I felt that should be clarified.

[Wil]

But in a classroom, yes, they do have to be busy at all times and I preferred it not to be quiet beyond the average needed think time (9-15 seconds). Busy means less trouble from kids and quiet typically meant preoccupied with thoughts unrelated to class.

...

I don't think you were saying otherwise, but I felt that should be clarified.

Understood. You are correct in that isn't what I was saying, and I agree that they should be busy with something in school... but it should be related to the furthering of their education or the promotion of thinking.

One common example I often see used is texting in church. More specifically, a parent makes a child attend church and the child spends that time texting. Now, while I can see why they would wish to do this and I agree that often times church is very mind numbingly dull, I can also see it as being exceptionally rude (to those around you, to the Minister and the church staff, to God [lol]). But, then again, I also think that if the parent is letting their child text in church in the first place then they may as well just allow the child to decide if they wish to attend church or not.

*shrugs* I've never been one to understand the need to always be busy anyways. I'm perfectly content just sitting still doing and listening to nothing while in a waiting room, driving down the road, or even just sitting at home.

[neo-dragon]

*shrugs* I've never been one to understand the need to always be busy anyways. I'm perfectly content just sitting still doing and listening to nothing while in a waiting room, driving down the road, or even just sitting at home.

I can relate, and I agree with what you said before about people who can't stand to be alone with their own thoughts, although I don't necessarily abhor them. I guess I'm just so naturally introspective/introverted that it's something I simply can't relate to.

[locke]

speaking of permanent record. a year or two after I graduated I went to look up what I scored on the IQ test they had me take when I was 16 for a statewide summer gifted program. They wouldn't tell me the results, but I remember the look on the test givers face during many of the sections. they said I could have my parents find out and they could tell me or I could find out after I was eighteen. I'm mainly curious because I know they only selected the top three students in our grade and there were three things they did to score it, your PSAT or PACT score, GPA and the IQ test. And I was only in the 5-10 range of the other two components. Unfortunately the tests results weren't in my record. they said it definitely should be there, but was not, perhaps never put in in the first place. I find the idea that they lost records more annoying than that they couldn't tell me what I wanted to know.

fwiw, my mom quite rightly did not find out, she knew better than to feed my ego at the time.

the IQ test wasn't an accurate result, anyway, I'd just seen the series premiere to Malcolm in the middle and was sort of prepped what to look for in some sections (find what's missing etc). additionally it had a cultural component that I found annoying at the time because I knew that a recent immigrant would fail this section miserably thus making the test less valid.

[CezeN]

I didnt know this place was full of teachers.

Yes I am at school to learn, but it turns out my advisory is in a computer room. My advisory teacher lets us use the computers and do anything we want on it. In advisory if I have something that really needs studying or have homework I will do it. If not I go on the computer or talk to my friends.
neodragon- Basically, I have no real necessity to access those website but I would like to. Its kinda like I have no necessity to talk to the other kids, but I still do. And the teacher lets us talk. And that teacher lets us use the computer.

Syphon the sun- Thats what happens with proxys, you use them for a while then they get banned. Im not standing out from any kids at my school so I wouldnt say that the schools "caught me". And since the teacher already allows us to use the computer for needs other than educational purposes, I might as well go to those websites that I want too that are banned. So no, its not for my "own good" that your not helping me. Im getting nothing good out of not going to those websites.
And trust me, I will never think differently. I dont think Im right, I just know that from my perspective, knowing the specifics, theres nothing wrong with me going to those websites and its not hurting me in anyway. BTW- Im sure the library people already know I use it, but Im not the only one. IF they start punishing people for using proxys the way you keep saying, theyd probably have to punish and be watching 10% of the school.

Wil- Advisory a.ka Homeroom is not a class for learning. The teacher doesnt teach us a subject or anything. I just pulled the good straw and got a nice teacher in a computer room, who lets us use computers freely as much as we want. The whole old "YOUR AT SCHOOL TO LEARN, COMPUTERS DISTRACT YOU" lecture wouldn't apply to me, especially since Im such a good student.

I ask yall please Can you all tell me one????
btw- they used to ban sparknotes at our school. Without my proxy, I maybe would have failed a few quizes over books that I didnt have time to read. So my proxy actually helped me do better in the class

[Eaquae Legit]

Sparknotes SHOULD be banned. Ugh.

[CezeN]

Sparknotes SHOULD be banned. Ugh.

Why you gotta hate on sparknotes?????

[neo-dragon]

The whole old "YOUR AT SCHOOL TO LEARN, COMPUTERS DISTRACT YOU" lecture wouldn't apply to me, especially since Im such a good student.

You misspelled "you're" and "I'm".

[Eaquae Legit]

Sparknotes SHOULD be banned. Ugh.

Why you gotta hate on sparknotes?????

Because they help lazy students get grades they don't deserve. Because they foster a grades-focused attitude rather than a learning-focused attitude. Because they're cheating.

[CezeN]

Sparknotes SHOULD be banned. Ugh.

Why you gotta hate on sparknotes?????

Because they help lazy students get grades they don't deserve. Because they foster a grades-focused attitude rather than a learning-focused attitude. Because they're cheating.

Sparknotes are only for books though. So what important thing would we learn from reading the book, that we won't learn from reading the sparknotes?????? When your taking AP and Pre-AP classes, you have to prioritize what you read or study.

And bad spelling on the interwebz has no correlation with how good a student a person is.

[neo-dragon]

I know, but I thought it was ironic nonetheless.

[Valentine]

1) I fully agree that sparknotes should be banned in schools. If you're too lazy to read the book, and so unprepared that - despite not reading the book - you didn't look up the notes at home before the quiz, you SHOULD fail.
2) Everyone ought to relax a little bit. It's not like this guy came online asking for something horrible. I'm sure almost everyone here used a different proxy to access websites at school. I remember being in high school, doing it. There were days I had to stay after school, even, where I'd be killing time before my drama rehearsal and I'd want to mess around online. Myspace is harmless. Schools ban a ridiculous ammount of websites. Hell, my number one concern back then was that I couldn't get on Pweb at school. Give the kid a break.
3) Sorry, I have no idea what proxy you can use


On the subject of prioritizing: if you drive, you should get some copies of the books on tape.
I put in on average 5 hours of studytime after school, and close to 8-10 on the week of an exam. On top of that, I like to have some free time, too!! I know all about prioritizing what actually gets read, lol. When I don't have time to read a book for my MBA, especially a novel, I get the book on CD at barnes and noble. It's more expensive, obviously, but usually I can knock it out on my way to and from class in a week or so. REALLY convenient..

[Wil]

Speaking of SparkNotes... seems to me that is going in the wrong direction. Such as, if you're taking harder classes and as a result you're not reading the books but simply the notes then perhaps you should back off on the hard classes so that you have more time to do work completely instead of half-assing everything?

I've said it before: I'd rather learn and fail than fake it just to get a good grade.

[Gravity Defier]

Schools have every reason to ban 'ridiculous amounts' of websites.


MySpace, while not the devil, is certainly far from harmless. It's actually huge for internet bullying and I'll go on the record as saying that hell yeah everyone should be kept off it at school to prevent however few may be doing the bullying while they're on school property. What's done at home is the parents' responsibility to monitor but when you're at school, you're their responsibility.

Internet access, and all the games and sites on it, are a privilege and one that the schools are under absolutely no obligation to provide. It's a great tool for learning, no doubt, but beyond that, it's just a liability issue. Too many parents are touchy enough as is with curriculum and then to let their little sweethearts roam around on the internet, with access to pretty much anything and everything? Dumb, dumb, dumb on any school's part that actually allows it.

If you don't like the rules set at your school, don't have your parents sign the technology permission form (which is a requirement for all schools) and don't use the school's machines. SIMPLE as that.


I have no patience for the student mentality that "I should get what I want whenever I want it because I'm different than everyone else; I'm a good person who would never abuse the freedom given to me." Right, never heard that before.

[CezeN]

Speaking of SparkNotes... seems to me that is going in the wrong direction. Such as, if you're taking harder classes and as a result you're not reading the books but simply the notes then perhaps you should back off on the hard classes so that you have more time to do work completely instead of half-assing everything?

I've said it before: I'd rather learn and fail than fake it just to get a good grade.

The only problem with that is, I would learn more from studying for pre-AP chemistry, then from reading a fictional classic like The Scarlet Letter. I would learn more studying for APU.S. history than from reading The Life of Pie
Im not gonna trade off college credit and more important information, for more time to read boring unimportant fictional books. Sorry Im just half-assed like that

Valentine-I dont drive yet.

Gravity Defier- I dont know why adults always feel that we kids feel like "we should get whatever we want". This assumption is bordering on the terms of a cliche. I barely use the computers at school except for when Im in that homeroom class. I dont see what Im abusing. And of course Im different, different from this generilization/stereotype that you have about students. So you are a teacher????? Time for me to go for a cliche. We are all different and unique from the common stereotype, all students.

[Syphon the Sun]

Cez,
I have a few problems with what you're saying.

The first being that the teacher generally doesn't have the authority to let you do whatever you want online. More than that, they certainly do not have the authority to let you do something that is specifically banned. And they're not authorizing that, anyway. You're allowed to use the computer; you're not allowed to use the computer in a manner inconsistent with the regulations set in place by the school.

Also, it doesn't matter how good a student you are (though, by your own admission, you're not; you're merely trying to keep up the appearance of such): you're still doing something that you specifically know is not allowed and probably breaks the agreement you signed with the school. And the whole "everybody is doing it" line won't make a bit of difference. Ten percent of the school is probably using tobacco products while there, too. That doesn't mean the school doesn't have the right to enforce their rules; nor does it suddenly become okay to break them.

If you're truly naïve enough to think that the administrators don't know what you're doing, despite the fact that two proxies which had been working are now blocked, you're in for a fun surprise. There's a reason the proxies were banned: they were discovered. I assure you: you're being watched. Whether you believe that or not is your own gig, but maybe you should give it a little more thought instead of just dismissing it. Or don't. After all, what happens to you as the result of your own actions is on you; and you can't say we didn't warn you.

Anyway, I guess my real problem is that you think you have the right to go to banned websites for any reason. I repeat: it's not your personal computer at home. The school has the right to ban whatever they wish. And your only legal course of action is to persuade them to change the settings.

So, what are you getting out of not going to those websites through means not allowed? The comfort of not having your internet access cut off, the comfort of not being found in breach of a written contract, the comfort of not being found to have been in tortious trespass, the comfort of not being subjected to other disciplinary action, etc. Because whether you think the school will do something or not, the fact is that they can, at any moment. They can arbitrarily decide that they don't like you and will punish you accordingly. They can make an example out of you. They can do pretty whatever they please, all because you couldn't follow the rules and gave them enough reason to punish you. And what will your defense be? "Oh, everyone was doing it!" Nobody cares; custom practice is quite irrelevant. "I wasn't doing anything bad on the websites!" Again, doesn't matter. You were breaking the rules. It wouldn't make a difference if you were doing so to donate hundreds of dollars to charity. Whatever moral justification you think you have: it doesn't matter.

Regardless, you won't believe anything anyone says, because you've already made up your mind that you're right. You're invincible and nothing can happen to you.

Just don't expect us to empower you anymore than you'd expect us to do your homework for you. If you're that committed to it, do your own research. Or have your parents banned the tools to research that, too?

[Syphon the Sun]

(Sorry for the double post.)

I would learn more studying for AP U.S. history than from reading The Life of Pie

But maybe if you read the book, you'd know what the actual title was.

Also, as someone who has studied English and History, I have a real problem with that. You don't learn more information; you learn different information. There is a difference.

I barely use the computers at school except for when Im in that homeroom class. I dont see what Im abusing.

You're abusing the privilege given to you after you had to specifically agree to certain terms. When you're breaking the rules, you're abusing your privilege. End story.

And of course Im different, different from this generilization/stereotype that you have about students.

It's not a generalization when it's from your own mouth that you're abusing your privileges.

[Petra456]

Gravity Defier- I dont know why adults always feel that we kids feel like "we should get whatever we want". This assumption is bordering on the terms of a cliche. I barely use the computers at school except for when Im in that homeroom class. I dont see what Im abusing. And of course Im different, different from this generilization/stereotype that you have about students. So you are a teacher????? Time for me to go for a cliche. We are all different and unique from the common stereotype, all students.

You're trying to find another way to access something that's been blocked at least two times before, and you don't know why adults think kids think they should get whatever they want?

[Valentine]

Seriously, why can't we just leave him be?
You can't or won't help him. Isn't that enough?
Lecturing new member, no matter how right or wrong you feel their actions are, isn't the most welcoming initiative. I'm glad it's sparked debate, but it really feels to me like this is an entire thread of people that want to pick on one newer poster.

[Gravity Defier]

CezeN, the only thing I really have left to say is adults were teenagers once (not all that long ago for some of us), and before that we were pre-teens, and before that regular ol' kids, and before that, toddlers, and first, babies.

Why do teens assume adults were born as adults and don't remember/know anything from pre-18?

There are rules that suck for you as a student (and so for teachers who have to listen to you bitch about how unfair this or that is), but I'll venture to say the grand majority of them have a purpose for existing (like laws, they get made when a problem needs to be addressed and controlled) and basically, you just have to suck it up and get over yourself.



ETA:
Nicole, I promise, I'm an equal opportunity bitch. I'm pretty sure part of who I was speaking out against (myspace being harmless) was you and you're an older member than I am.

[CezeN]

WOW. Your reply was WAY too big. Im gonna have to pick and choose at what I reply to.

When did I admit Im just keeping up the appearance of being a good student????

The whole "everybodys doing it" line applies to your statement that they are watching me. Therefore since Im not the only one whos using the proxy, Im pretty sure that they are not watching me in particular. Im not saying since "everyone is doing it" its okay. Also the librarians know we fool around on the internet. They basically have a "salutary neglect" policy where they dont enforce that they dont want us to play games. But at certain intervals, they will say if anyones not doing anything important or school related can you please get off.

LOl. Trust me, I know what Im talking about. I am not being watched specifically. Thats not how it works. They discover a proxy, then ban it. Thats how it works. Its not "this kid used a proxy, lets ban it, and watch for any new proxies that he uses". No need for the paranoia.

Everyone needs to stop putting words in my mouth. I dont think I have a right to go to the website. Theres no protest against, the schools violation of my unalienable right to myspace, wikipedia, and the pursuit of gaming websites. I just want to. I feel like theres no problem with it.

I feel like me not using those proxys is time wasted listening to the nonblocked rap music, which supposedly is bad for me, instead of socializing with friends through myspace, or researching something through my favorite search engine-thingy wikipedia. Honestly, I would say the rap music is worse for me. THough I dont go around cussing, if you sleep with the dogs, you wake up with fleas. Yet if I dont have my proxy, if I go on the computer, thats what Im gonna end up doing.

If they make an example out of people for using proxys, it would have already happened, and the example would have already been set. I know Im right, because unlike you, I know my specific situation intimately therefore I know theres nothing wrong with what Im doing.

My parents grant me absolute freedom over the internet. Searching for proxys that havent been blocked is near impossible, because the only ones that work are ones that are barely known, not located on a list of proxys, and probably on the 100,000 search page on google. If you search for proxy, and one pops up, its not gonna work.

Comeon you guys. Help me out. This is an Ender forum and Ender routinely did stuff like hacking on computers. As someone already said. THough he is a fictional character, how can you all call yourself Ender fans?????

[CezeN]

Sorry for the doublepost.
Btw- I have no problem with debates. I dont feel like Im getting picked on or anything, so I dont feel like theres anything wrong with all of you all coming here to tell me how Im wrong.
Basically Im saying, continue.
Though thanks for trying to stand up for me Valentine

[Valentine]

Nicole, I promise, I'm an equal opportunity bitch. I'm pretty sure part of who I was speaking out against (myspace being harmless) was you and you're an older member than I am.

Alea, I know more than anyone in the world what bad can come of myspace, and I still maintain its harmless to allow it in schools. We'll just have to disagree on that. But I never thought you were being a bitch to me - I guess I just have more respect for you than to think that.

[CezeN]

Gravity Defier- I dont know why adults always feel that we kids feel like "we should get whatever we want". This assumption is bordering on the terms of a cliche. I barely use the computers at school except for when Im in that homeroom class. I dont see what Im abusing. And of course Im different, different from this generilization/stereotype that you have about students. So you are a teacher????? Time for me to go for a cliche. We are all different and unique from the common stereotype, all students.

You're trying to find another way to access something that's been blocked at least two times before, and you don't know why adults think kids think they should get whatever they want?

Actually, Im trying to find another way to access something thats blocked, and my two prior methods have been blocked.
I dont think I deserve I should get it, your reading in between lines. I WANT to have it, whethor I deserve it or not. I find no problems with the website, so if I can find a way around the blocks I dont mind.........But I dont feel like getting whatever I want is an unalienable right like you seem to be saying. Like the cliche says.