The Future's Looking Blue

[locke]

The Future's looking Biden.

[locke]

die, CNN, your pundits and inane useless commentary and attempts to make news or create a talking point where there is no talking point are driving me nuts. grrr. {changes station to cspan}

[locke]

for the first time since the 3am ad, I like Hillary Clinton again.

[Gravity Defier]

I've been hesitant to really post about politics on Pweb after going through the '04 election here, so I'll be brief.

*I worry that former Hillary supporters are going to see Palin (and thus McCain) as a good alternative to the Obama ticket just because she is a woman. I don't trust McCain and I sure as hell don't trust Palin, who was entirely unknown to me until about an hour ago. It was smart of McCain to pick her, though; I'll give him that much.

*I 'enjoyed' listening to caller responses on CSPAN at the end of each day at the DNC. There were some real idiots, such as a woman from Wisconsin who had the nerve to say women don't deserve equal pay for equal work. McCain can have her vote.

*I know the assassination attempt on Obama, as it was, had no real shot in hell but I do have this fear that people will keep trying and be more successful in their attempts.

*Obama's speech last night was spectacular. I could be corny about the reaction I had, but I'll keep that to myself. Plainly stated, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[locke]

ugh the Palin news was terrible news to wake up to. it's pretty much nothing but bad for democrats and nothing but good for republicans.

Barring the possibility that she might be an Eagleton (Missouri Senator picked by McGovern on the fly without a proper b/g check and later had to resign the ticket due to questionable background), I think this is game over for the democrats. It was always going to be a close election but this is probably the tipping point decision of the election. The 'liberal' media has been sucking McCain off so enthusiastically and uncritically for the past month that they're absolutely going to go into an ecstatic frenzy with this choice. it really shores up the narrative the press wants this election to be, and the story they perceive in the election is always more important than the reality of the election.

Basically, McCain wins Florida now, and Obama has to hold Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennslyvania (all trending strongly in his direction) while flipping Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, or take Ohio or Virginia. This probably also just made Ohio the most important state in the election once again.

I'm a bit disgusted and frustrated right now, this after the high I was on from Obama's fantastic speech last night.

[locke]

I hate this weird thing that happens where I post and there's some sort of error and I reload the thread and my post is there but it hasn't bumped the thread up.

[starlooker]

The 'liberal' media has been sucking McCain off so enthusiastically and uncritically for the past month that they're absolutely going to go into an ecstatic frenzy with this choice. it really shores up the narrative the press wants this election to be, and the story they perceive in the election is always more important than the reality of the election.

*nods furiously*

That's what I've been screaming all along. I f****** hate the media and their fake news and their fake journalism and stories. Watching the news is basically watching reality TV. An edited story with scenes taken out of context to contribute to the story line that gives people the satisfaction of voyeurism without any actual bearing on actual reality in all its complexity.

[starlooker]

The 'liberal' media has been sucking McCain off so enthusiastically and uncritically for the past month that they're absolutely going to go into an ecstatic frenzy with this choice. it really shores up the narrative the press wants this election to be, and the story they perceive in the election is always more important than the reality of the election.

*nods furiously*

That's what I've been screaming all along. I f****** hate the media and their fake news and their fake journalism and stories. Watching the news is basically watching reality TV. An edited story with scenes taken out of context to contribute to the story line that gives people the satisfaction of voyeurism without any actual bearing on actual reality in all its complexity.

[LilBee91]

The Palin news definitely caused a bit of stir in my school today; it's just weird. But we do rather love her up here. We're getting $3000 each this year because of her. She does seem rather a random choice though...

[locke]

why do I get the feeling that OSC's column on Palin will describe her in the most glowing messianic terms possible? That he will set up all her critics as imbeciles who are blinded by petty partisanship preemptively attacking said critics with worthless strawmen faux-argumentation? That he will describe her as the greatest politician in America who could only be more perfect if she were Mormon?

I just have a feeling I'm going to gag hard on OSC's take on her.

lol completely unrelated, but it just occured to me that the democratic primary was like an episode of Rugrats. Obama=Tommy, Clinton=Angelica.

[lyons24000]

I figured you'd like this article, Locke.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/12997

why do I get the feeling that OSC's column on Palin will describe her in the most glowing messianic terms possible? That he will set up all her critics as imbeciles who are blinded by petty partisanship preemptively attacking said critics with worthless strawmen faux-argumentation? That he will describe her as the greatest politician in America who could only be more perfect if she were Mormon?

I just have a feeling I'm going to gag hard on OSC's take on her.

Nobody really takes OSC seriously anymore. He has already proved himself an idiot. Plus, aren't all Mormon's Republican? That's what my Mormon friends have told me.

[steph]

Plus, aren't all Mormon's Republican? That's what my Mormon friends have told me.

Nope. I know quite a few Mormon Democrats.

[lyons24000]

Really? I guess I can't believe everything my Mormon friends tells me. He also told me that Mormon's believe the Book of Job didn't happen. Another Mormon friend told me that Jesus most likely had children.

[Rei]

Actually, if I recall correctly, Job is often taken to be an epic tale as opposed to a historic account. Kind of how Song of Songs is a romantic poem.

[locke]

wow, so I was somewhat wrong (heh) about Palin's selection, the last five days have been like the most fascinating political soap opera ever (or at least since Monica). anyway, y'll should tune into "As Wasilla Turns" and find out what's going to happen next. The plot is as good as the best Pro wrestling plots from seventh/eighth grade when I watched the 'sport'.

Anyways, in real news, here's Obama's goals for Science Tecnology Engineering and Math:

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=40

also I am going to go to Nevada with some friends to register voters the last weekend of September.

[locke]

ETA nevermind. but Palin may turn me from a moderate into a liberal.

[Gravity Defier]

The more I hear and see Palin, the more fake she seems. I tried really hard to be objective during her speech last night, but I just sat there, rotating between shaking my head, yawning, and arguing with the TV. She says she was against the Bridge to Nowhere and earmarks, yet I'm reading over and over about her support and being in favor of both. I'm also weary of anyone who says wars are missions of God or that we need God to make people and companies to come together to accomplish a task like building a pipe. So, Palin, I say thanks, but no thanks.

I also got a bit annoyed at Huckabee for the comment: I'm not a republican because I grew up rich. I'm a republican because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life poor, waiting for the government to rescue me.

Ah, yes. My not being wealthy, which is independent from my support for government assistance for those who need it, must be why I can't be a republican. I know it was an attempt to differentiate between the two parties on things like welfare and such, but come on. You can't (I guess you can) call Obama elitist and then say something so snooty. It's possible, but more than a little bit difficult, to overcome poverty. Especially if it's a generational issue, which it almost always is.

That whole "Islamic terrorist" is offensive to the terrorists comment was just so stupid, I had to laugh. I think that was Giuliani.

Meh. I need to not watch the news anymore. It just gets me all riled up.

[Dr. Mobius]

Maybe there's hope for this country yet.

http://womenagainstsarahpalin.blogspot.com/

[starlooker]

I desperately needed that.

[Yebra]

I find it weird the US is the only place where the blue party is the less conservative one.

[locke]

especially, considering, the republicans really really really hate commies more than anything. :p it's ironical and stuff.

[Eaquae Legit]

The more I hear and see Palin, the more fake she seems. I tried really hard to be objective during her speech last night, but I just sat there, rotating between shaking my head, yawning, and arguing with the TV. She says she was against the Bridge to Nowhere and earmarks, yet I'm reading over and over about her support and being in favor of both. I'm also weary of anyone who says wars are missions of God or that we need God to make people and companies to come together to accomplish a task like building a pipe. So, Palin, I say thanks, but no thanks.

The way she treats her son, Trig, really, really bothers me. Yes, she kept him, and that earns her anti-eugenics brownie points in my book. But he's not a toy or a mascot or an emblem. He's a baby.

The way she presents herself as a disability advocate also bothers me. She has no idea of the challenges he (and she) are going to face, the supports he'll need, or anything at all really about life with disability. At four months old, babies are pretty universal - they eat, sleep, and vomit. What the heck sort of special knowledge or insight does she think she has? I know I'm not alone in this view, either. The reaction from this disability rights community to her "you'll have a friend in the White House" line was a near-universal WTF, you aren't my 'friend,' lady!

[Yebra]

Obama meets Bartlet

[Ela]

Maybe there's hope for this country yet.

http://womenagainstsarahpalin.blogspot.com/

Sarah Palin is Dolores Umbridge.

*****

But, seriously, if McCain chose Palin cause he thinks that women who would have voted for Hilary would vote for Palin, he doesn't understand the motivations at all.

Palin and Hilary have nothing in common except for their sex.

[locke]

Palin isn't meant to woo women voters. she's meant to woo blue collar voters who are anxious about voting for a black man. It gives them an enthusiastic way to support McCain because they can hide behind a 'we aren't sexist (therefore we aren't racist)' argument. That she's also a redneck (like many blue collar folk) helps. Because democrats are hopeless at understanding the redneck part of their base. low class minorities they get. middle class and upper class whites they get. Low class whites they don't get at all.

[Jebus]

I disagree that Palin isn't a cheap way to buy Clinton votes. You only have to think back to her first speech as VP candidate and hear how she gushed over Clinton to know what her mission statement was: "Bring angry, bitter Clinton supporters into the Republican fold."

And Biden's was: "McCain is old and Republican, make fun of him lots please, 'cause Obama needs to pretend to play the higher ground, k thanks."

Hopefully Obama winning will inspire the Republicans to push Ron Paul in 2012, him being not a complete douche.

[Ela]

Palin isn't meant to woo women voters. she's meant to woo blue collar voters who are anxious about voting for a black man. It gives them an enthusiastic way to support McCain because they can hide behind a 'we aren't sexist (therefore we aren't racist)' argument. That she's also a redneck (like many blue collar folk) helps. Because democrats are hopeless at understanding the redneck part of their base. low class minorities they get. middle class and upper class whites they get. Low class whites they don't get at all.

I mostly agree with you, locke.

My remarks were mostly in response to this comment, but I was too lazy to go back and look for them to quote them:

*I worry that former Hillary supporters are going to see Palin (and thus McCain) as a good alternative to the Obama ticket just because she is a woman. I don't trust McCain and I sure as hell don't trust Palin, who was entirely unknown to me until about an hour ago.

[Gravity Defier]

Only I said that, like, an hour after she was appointed and made her first speech at the rally in Ohio. The speech in which she, like Hilary and M. Obama, mentioned the glass ceiling.

"Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America. But it turns out the women of America aren't finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all," Palin said in her speech.

(from http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/ ... candidate/)



She hadn't done/said anything in the public spotlight, really, at that point so at that time, she seemed to be appointed solely for the sake of Repubs being able to claim they'd make history too if they won the White House.

I still think the initial purpose of her was to try to reign in women, but I'll now concede she would also like to get: mothers in general, mothers of disabled children specifically, low class white, the religious, conservatives, gun owners, oil fanatics (Drill, baby, drill...), etc.

This does not mean, however, that there won't be some women out there who will vote for her simply because she, like Hilary, is a woman. My concern is not entirely misplaced.


And a sidenote: I hate her voice. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

[locke]

she fired her police chief for being 'disloyal' when she took office as mayor and one of the first actions the guy she appointed to replace him made was to start charging rape victims 600$ for the check to see if they'd been raped. This caused such consternation in Alaska that the state legislature had to step in and ban the practice... and yet Palin says she knew nothing about it. Either she's lying or she's shockingly ignorant of what was going on in her town and state.

Oh and the guy she fired in the whole troopergate affair (not the trooper, the manager who didnt' reopen the case against the tropoer after she took office) was fired, according to Palin, for scheduling a trip to washington (a trip her office approved) to lobby for funding to help alaska fight their problem with sexual assault and rapes.

[Ela]

Only I said that, like, an hour after she was appointed and made her first speech at the rally in Ohio. The speech in which she, like Hilary and M. Obama, mentioned the glass ceiling.

"Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America. But it turns out the women of America aren't finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all," Palin said in her speech.

(from http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/ ... candidate/)



She hadn't done/said anything in the public spotlight, really, at that point so at that time, she seemed to be appointed solely for the sake of Repubs being able to claim they'd make history too if they won the White House.

I still think the initial purpose of her was to try to reign in women, but I'll now concede she would also like to get: mothers in general, mothers of disabled children specifically, low class white, the religious, conservatives, gun owners, oil fanatics (Drill, baby, drill...), etc.

This does not mean, however, that there won't be some women out there who will vote for her simply because she, like Hilary, is a woman. My concern is not entirely misplaced.


And a sidenote: I hate her voice. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Yeah, my remark wasn't aimed at you, specifically, but at the notion that Hillary supporters would go for Palin. Rightly or wrongly, that notion is still being voiced by some that I have seen.

The ones who may be doing a Hillary-Palin substitution are the few who were voting for Hillary solely because she's a women. And I personally know someone who expressed that view. So I agree that your concern is not entirely misplaced. But I think that the impact of any Hillary-Palin substitution will be vanishingly low.

The vast majority of Hillary supporters would never go for Palin, because Palin is the antithesis of the values that Hillary and her supporters espouse.

[starlooker]

Got that right.

*fervently wishes to go live in an alternate universe where Hillary got the nomination*

[locke]

considering bill Clinton signed the deregulation bill into law that allowed the mess on wall street to happen I think everyone in the democratic party leadership is extremely happy Clinton isn't on the top or bottom of the presidential ticket, if she were, the republicans would no longer be politically culpable and could spin everything into a 'it's the Clintonss fault, this is their economic policy! republicans got nothing to do with it' lie and would easily win the election.

[Yebra]

I can't help but think it's a little more clever than that. The point of Palin isn't to win over Clinton voters (but that'd be a nice outcome), it's to stand up there as a target, give the misogynistic tendency of parts of Obama's base and the media another chance to shine and give the Republicans the chance to repudiate sexist treatment the way the Democrats never did. She's not really there to win over Clinton voters, she's there on the chance the behaviour of their own side will make them stay home on election day.

[starlooker]

Locke:

Don't care. Loved Hillary.

I mean, not to the point of insanity. Not to the point where I won't vote or support the conservatives, for heaven's sake. But still. I'll clarify, though. After the first week in November, I will wish wish I could flip myself to an alternate universe in which she won the primaries and the national election.

Saw her and Obama live in Grand Forks a few months ago. No contest, none at all. And I was ready for Obama to persuade me. I was half-hoping he would, I was a Clinton supporter, but feeling a bit coin-tossy.

Stump speech at the Democratic convention in North Dakota, which had gone 70% for Obama in the primary caucases and which is going to be a red state in the national elections in any circumstances. She had no reason to really invest there.

Obama's speech: it was nice. It was a good stump speech. Made me proud to be an American and a Democrat and all that.

Hillary's speech: Incredible. Amazing. She had done her homework, knew the area, knew the way national issues play on a local level, was utterly inspiring.

And it was like, "Damn, if she's going to work this hard talking to the friggin' North Dakota convention, how hard would she work in venues that mattered?"

Anyways, not that it matters anymore. I live in this universe, I like Obama and will be proud to support him in this election. I've even given some of my meager graduate student funds to his campaign, which I've never done before. There's just a bit of wistfulness, that's all.

[Wind Swept]

Saw her and Obama live in Grand Forks a few months ago. No contest, none at all. And I was ready for Obama to persuade me. I was half-hoping he would, I was a Clinton supporter, but feeling a bit coin-tossy.

She converted all of my roommates from Obama supporters to Hillary supporters with that speech. They went up to Grand Forks talking about getting to see Obama, and oh, Hillary, too. And then they came back talking about how amazing Hillary was.

On a different note, I was sad to hear that some of the 50+ people the Obama campaign pulled out of North Dakota are in Minnesota to fight racism in the Iron Range. Apparently, northern Minnesota is not ready to vote for an African American president.

ETA: Oh, I'm also upset with Norm Coleman. There was supposed to be a Franken/Coleman debate in Moorhead, but Coleman backed out because he was afraid it would convince college students up here to vote against him. Pansy. We might get Franken up here for a rally, anyway, but a debate would have been a good deal more fun.