The Guys not talking about Guy Stuff Thread

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!

Best regular shaving option?

At the Barbar, hot towels, the whole works
0
No votes
Safety razor
2
17%
cartridge razor
3
25%
Blade Razor
2
17%
Straight Edge Razor
1
8%
I never, ever shave my face
4
33%
 
Total votes: 12

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Janus%TheDoorman
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Postby Janus%TheDoorman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:49 am

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That said, the marker of manhood or maturity, isn't having had sex, or fathering a child, or chopping down a tree or any other particular event in a lifetime. Maturity's about not looking to the outside world to justify yourself or your beliefs. Abstaining from sex can be just as much a sign of maturity as a conventional relationship, as can sleeping around. All of these things can be signs of immaturity, too.

locke mentioned that some people are just uncomfortable with the idea of sex, though, and that speaks of immaturity. I have no problem judging whether someone's mature or generally behaves like a man or a woman, and not like a boy or a girl, but acting like it's a sharp dividing line which can be crossed by some action and never crossed back again is somewhat immature.
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Postby daPyr0x » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:34 pm

Stop trying to be perfect. Focus on being you; perfect will come.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:57 pm

Manliness is being on a horse.
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Postby Caspian » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:15 pm

Even if you're active in your church (and I'm thinking of my extremely conservative evangelical midwestern church) couples in their mid twenties will routinely live together for a year or more before getting married.
If this is true than your church is not as conservative as you think it is.
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Postby Eaquae Legit » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:01 pm

Frankly, someone who will dump you because you're a virgin (male or female) is an immature piece of s*** who you're better off without. Talk about a shallow "dealbreaker".
Quoted for truth.
Really? I mean, if I'm mature enough to know that at that point in my life I am not willing to have a long-term relationship, and my sexuality is a big part of my life, does it make me an immature piece of s*** because I don't want to be a person's first? Every one of us here knows the emotional component of sex is magnified by a "first time," and may not be interested in the possibility of such a relationship at that point in time.

I wouldn't want to date a virgin right now. Not because I'd assume that meant I'd be waiting a long time with her to get laid (oh how I long for a girl with the backbone to make me wait...); but because I know how breakups can be and I know it'd be all the worse if it ended up getting to that level and then I up and said "Alright, that's great and all, but I'm moving away," as I have a tendency to do.
I'd say that the virginity of this hypothetical girl is less a factor than your relative emotional states or what you expect from a relationship. You say your sexuality is a big part of your life (fair enough) but that you'd love a girl who made you wait. And knowing you over the years, I'm not surprised by the latter, and I know it would mean a lot to you. So why would you dump a girl who made you wait and was a virgin if you're fine waiting for a non-virgin? I generally respect you, Cam, so I find it harder to believe that you would dump an otherwise great relationship over that, and not just see where things went.

Also, I find a difference between not getting into a relationship versus ending one. The first could be a sort of self-protection, and the second I find, yes, rather shallow. It implies that the rest of a working, pre-established relationship doesn't or can't outweigh that one factor.

My original response to Adam's post was harsh in tone in response to some rather harsh and sweeping statements. I'm glad you gave me the chance for a more thoughtful reply.

*****

Kirsten:
A+++

I don't give two hoots about people having casual sex. Whatever floats your boat. Nor am I uncomfortable with sex.

I will, however, display judgementalism in response to some incredibly disdainful statements about people who choose not to have sex. If someone is looking down their nose at the choice to be a virgin, and those who make that choice, I'll reply.

Or, what Kirsten said.

*****
Even if you're active in your church (and I'm thinking of my extremely conservative evangelical midwestern church) couples in their mid twenties will routinely live together for a year or more before getting married.
If this is true than your church is not as conservative as you think it is.
Also, this.
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Postby Rei » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:10 pm

I'd also like to add that I was not being prudish about sex. I have also been through university and have excellent friends from all sorts of orientations and experience backgrounds. I do take extreme issue, however, much as Kirsten has said, at judging someone's status as a mature adult based upon whether or not they have had sex.
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Postby jotabe » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:37 am

Manliness is being on a horse.
I'd like to note how women social position improved as horses stopped being used as a transportation means.

Also:
Manliness is a miserable little pileness of lies.
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Postby Luet » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:20 am

Even if you're active in your church (and I'm thinking of my extremely conservative evangelical midwestern church) couples in their mid twenties will routinely live together for a year or more before getting married.
If this is true than your church is not as conservative as you think it is.
Ditto again. There are no couples who lived together before marriage while active members of my religion. Also, my husband and I were both virgins when we got married (22 and 21, respectively).
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:23 am

It probably also violates the church covenant, if they have one.
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Postby daPyr0x » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:56 pm

I'd say that the virginity of this hypothetical girl is less a factor than your relative emotional states or what you expect from a relationship. You say your sexuality is a big part of your life (fair enough) but that you'd love a girl who made you wait. And knowing you over the years, I'm not surprised by the latter, and I know it would mean a lot to you. So why would you dump a girl who made you wait and was a virgin if you're fine waiting for a non-virgin? I generally respect you, Cam, so I find it harder to believe that you would dump an otherwise great relationship over that, and not just see where things went.

Also, I find a difference between not getting into a relationship versus ending one. The first could be a sort of self-protection, and the second I find, yes, rather shallow. It implies that the rest of a working, pre-established relationship doesn't or can't outweigh that one factor.

My original response to Adam's post was harsh in tone in response to some rather harsh and sweeping statements. I'm glad you gave me the chance for a more thoughtful reply.
I realize the inference in my post was me saying that my sexuality is a big part of my life; I was more offering it as a hypothetical situation. I just didn't differentiate well between the hypothetical and the literal. I wouldn't actually say that my sexuality is a big part of my life - but I will say that "restrictions" within a relationship of that sort do tend to bother/frustrate me to an extent that would equate to me being less open to a relationship.

[edit] I realized I should probably expand on that a little, didn't really come out quite the way I intended. I just mean that it's important for me in a physical relationship to be with someone who is comfortable with their own body. That distances me from anybody, virgin or not. Generally speaking, virgins are not. You can't expect them to be.

The issue is not with whether or not I would dump somebody I was in a relationship with over the fact that they are a virgin. Rather, I am aware of the fact that a committed or otherwise emotionally charged relationship is not something that is right for me right now. Maybe that's because I'm bitter, cold, and emotionally shut down; maybe that's because I've not been anywhere with the intention of staying for a very long time and don't want to build ties I need to break later. Regardless of what it is, though; I don't care to have that kind of a relationship at this point in my life. I am all for casually dating; if things become sexual and the woman I'm with is more comfortable with a "monogamy label" on things due to that, I can deal with that, too. I make no secrets, though, about my lack of intentions to stick around geographically; and I also have no intention on rushing a relationship due to bringing somebody with me to wherever my next chapter of life is to be lived. Really, when it comes to relationships for me right now, the only titles I'd be placing on things would be "monogamy labels;" and are those really appropriate for a non-sexual relationship with a virgin?

Sure I'd date em, go out, enjoy time spent, whatever. Maybe my mindset would change if I magically ended up in one of those "otherwise great relationships," but with experience as my teacher I have little to no expectation of such a situation arising. If it's "nothing special" emotionally between us, as most of my relationships tend to be, then I'm probably not going to continue a relationship with a virgin girl who wants some sort of monogamy title for the relationship. That isn't a "one size fits all" policy for me; rather a "this best fits me right now" one. Does that make sense?

Manliness is what you become after spending years being hardened by emotionally abusive women :D :D
Last edited by daPyr0x on Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby elfprince13 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:26 pm

Manliness is being on a horse.
Get on my horse.
Even if you're active in your church (and I'm thinking of my extremely conservative evangelical midwestern church) couples in their mid twenties will routinely live together for a year or more before getting married.
If this is true than your church is not as conservative as you think it is.
QFT. Or they're conservative on the wrong issues.


I read an interesting book last summer call "Do Hard Things", which also happened to be reflective of my personal experiences with what it means to be an adult. Our society has an incredibly negative view of youth, which I would tend to classify as systematic ageism, and which has only grown with the trend of using the college years as an excuse to prolong childhood and immaturity rather than as a chance to learn. "Being a man" (or a woman for that matter), has very little to do with age or whether you've had sex or with having a job, and a lot to do with taking responsibility for your actions and with extending the bubble of people your life is focused on from yourself to include your family and community.
"But the conversation of the mind was truer than any language, and they knew each other better than they ever could have by use of mere sight and touch."

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Postby jotabe » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:59 am

Manliness is what you become after spending years being hardened by emotionally abusive women :D :D
So the secret of manliness is being cold and jaded? :P lol
Well, i guess that's why being gay is considered the antithesis of being manly.
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Postby Rei » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:02 am

I dunno, regularly getting spurned by 90% of your dating pool (assuming the famed 10% of all people are gay claim) could cause anyone to feel cold and jaded.
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Postby jotabe » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:43 am

Well, that's not necesarily the case always :wink:
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Postby locke » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:07 am

I'd also like to add that I was not being prudish about sex. I have also been through university and have excellent friends from all sorts of orientations and experience backgrounds. I do take extreme issue, however, much as Kirsten has said, at judging someone's status as a mature adult based upon whether or not they have had sex.
I think I said to Alea the other night I posted a satya-esque pair of troll posts and she said she was staying out of it. ;)

One, I really wish there was a sarcasm font style, like italics.

Two, this is the guy thread, where the hell else are we supposed to bitch about women?

being dumped for being inexperienced isn't hypothetical. I was the 23 y.o. virgin who was very nearly dumped when my level of inexperience revealed itself in a classic bout of performance anxiety. Note, the emotions the girl is likely to be feeling in the aftermath of this are pretty intense as well. Embarrassment, sexual frustration, and probably thoughts that its somehow her fault which lead to senses of shame and insecurity.

any derision and scorn directed towards virgins is directed primarily at myself and the decisions I made in college and high school to hide from girls and relationships and to never really attempt to pursue them, other than one girlfriend and asking a girl out to prom. Dating is fun, there's stress, yes, but its nowhere near the nightmare/terror I thought it would be up until I was twenty-three or so. let me emphasize this more clearly. I hate the person I was. I am embarrassed by decisions and thoughts and attitudes I once held. Just thinking about how much of my life has been completely wasted being that other person makes me twitch in frustration.

Jota has conveyed my attitude towards manliness exactly:
Manliness is a miserable little pileness of lies.
I don't particularly care for being judged less of a man by a girl because I hadn't had sex and then lost my erection when time came to put on a condom for the first time in my life. Nor do I care for being judged (so it seemed) at being less mature for implying that manliness was connected to sexual experience in my post (and I realize my sarcastic recitation of that girl's judgment of me didn't come through and it came through as my view).

sexuality, like maturity, are tremendously complex aspects of life. and there are places where they intertwine. I'm not going to detail my thoughts on that here, but it's sufficiently snarled enough that I had to take a couple days to decide how to respond here.

As for my church, from my experiences and my friends experiences people have a tendency to look the other way. Church folk are only interested in butting into your life if you're intrinsically evil (homosexual) if you're proving yourself to be a good little heterosexual then all's fair and the rest of your life is off limits.

Waiting for sex is pointless, in my opinion, if neither of you are virgins. I have nothing against taking time to get to know someone and letting intimacy levels develop at their own unique pace for that relationship. but not at a pace that excludes sex until marriage. I have been forced to wait for fifteen months by a girlfriend who was waiting until marriage. And then she cheated on me. And I'm not going through that again.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby locke » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:26 am

on a somewhat related note, I've been on five dates from OKC now, two I kissed. One is a great match for me interest wise and sexual interest wise. if the relationship continues we will probably sleep together within a month. A relationship probably wouldn't last more than three to six months

The other is a great match for my personality and background, less of a match on interests and sexual interest. if the relationship continues I estimate we wouldn't sleep together for two-three months. If I find out in that period she's a wait until marriage girl (she mentioned church stuff several times tonight) I'll break it off. A relationship probably would last for a year but less than two. I sort of laugh at the concept of a girl staying in a relationship with me that long.

I don't really see marriage prospects for either, but I think I stopped believing in those anyway. My family would like both, would approve more of the white girl.

Both very pretty. Maybe I should just be a player and date both of them without committing to either. ;)
Last edited by locke on Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby jotabe » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:18 am

Hey, you in OKC? XD me too!
Well, i have to say i am *really* for the tests and whatnot. I love doing silly tests.

>_>
<_< really it's for the tests, i swear! :o

It's not as if there is anyone within a 60 minutes-by-car radius from where i live, anyway, almost no spaniards use that page, which is just fine for me.
How do i know, you ask? ...

*cough*
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Postby Jebus » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:52 am

I have been forced to wait for fifteen months by a girlfriend who was waiting until marriage. And then she cheated on me. And I'm not going through that again.
I just wanna say that this is the suckiest thing that ever sucked. All bitches is hos.

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Postby starlooker » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:47 am

Two, this is the guy thread, where the hell else are we supposed to bitch about women?
:) <-- to let you know I know you are meaning this to be humorous prior to giving you a semi-serious response

Bitch about women all you want. When you appear to be bitching about pweb women in particular, though, you shouldn't be surprised at getting a rather annoyed response. (The majority of the hostility I originally wrote in was actually heavily edited out due to seeing a smiley at the last minute that hadn't actually flipped into a pweb emoticon. Prior to that, I was really pissed.)

And, dude, if you want to compare s***** first experiences some time, I can definitely hold my own in that competition. Spending the next several hours working at Seven-Eleven while bleeding profusely was just the icing on the cake. If I were to use that experience as a baseline for advice about when to have sex, I would tell women to run for the hills and never have sex at all or get into a relationship, ever, and definitely not until at least your mid to late twenties because men are insensitive pigs who deserve castration at best. This would likely pose a problem for the men trying to take your advice of dating and having sex early and often.

Perhaps the lesson from our experiences is not: Start having relationships at X time and have sex at X point in your life. It probably has more to do with holding yourself in reasonably high valuation and saying "f*** you" to unwarranted self-doubt.
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Postby Young Val » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:33 am

I am one of those girls, it seems, that "made" my boyfriends wait. I had two long-term relationships (2+ years) that ultimately ended because I wouldn't have sex with my partner.

It's not that I wasn't sexually attracted (I was, very, very much so, to both of them). It wasn't that I was waiting for marriage or some concrete milestone (I wasn't). And it wasn't that I was waiting to extract some promise or demonstration of trust or loyalty from them (I wasn't, and would never have gotten it from either of those two particular guys if I was). It wasn't that I was trying to be coy or torment them (I definitely wasn't).

It was very simply that I knew I wasn't ready. I was afraid and a little insecure and completely unwilling to contemplate the possible consequences of having sex, let alone actually dealing with them.

I wasn't waiting for any defined moment in time. I couldn't give those boyfriends a deadline (We'll have sex after prom, after one year, after two years, after you tell me you love me, after we graduate from high school, after we graduate from college, whatever). And they decided not to stick around. It hurt, a lot. But I don't regret those choices.

When I did have sex for the first time, I was 23. The details themselves weren't all that romantic, but it was with someone I loved, and more than anything else, I was simply ready. I was in full awareness of what I was doing and why I was doing it. I was aware of the potential outcomes and was prepared to deal with them. And I have no regrets.

Casual sex isn't my thing, and I've never had sex outside the context of a serious relationship. I don't pass any judgement on people who participate in it, but I know it's not right for me, and would only be damaging to me personally, so I choose not to participate in it (although at one time I was so depressed I seriously considered it, but couldn't follow through. For which I am eternally grateful).

I have been called many names and been told horrible things about myself (Apparently I'm a prude, a tease, a bitch. I am insecure about my body. I'm immature and childish and old-fashioned. I'm anti-feminist. I'm a loser. I'm clearly ashamed of myself. And on, and on) because I had not had sex at the time, or have only had sex with 2 partners, or waited so long to have sex at all, or whatever. It also seemed to be more about someone else's insecurities than my own. Oh sure, it hurt, but it never once made me think that listening to my body and my heart and my mind and never forcing myself into a situation I was clearly not ready for said anything negative about me.

Plenty of guys bailed, and that was devastating sometimes. But they needed to do what they needed to do, as I did. And just because I had had sex in one relationship, did not mean that I was going to have sex in every relationship thereafter. I still waited until I was ready. Sometimes I was never ready. That's just the way it is with me, I guess.

I'll do a lot of things stupidly, spontaneously, sure. Sex just isn't one of them.
you snooze, you lose
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I hear the bells
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I'm sick of waiting
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Postby locke » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:58 am

ugh, too much OT clutter, you've got your own topic now.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Eaquae Legit » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:24 pm

Good call.

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Postby Janus%TheDoorman » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:46 pm

Wait... wait... what exactly is the poll asking now?
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Postby Eaquae Legit » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:50 pm

No idea. I went with "butt wiping", for lack of a better question.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:54 pm

Wait... wait... what exactly is the poll asking now?
Cleanup. Sperm/cum. Not sure if that is referring to post-masturbation or post-coitus but not sure it matters.


At least, I hope it is or I'll just look like a perv.
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Postby Eaquae Legit » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:57 pm

Wait... wait... what exactly is the poll asking now?
Cleanup. Sperm/cum. Not sure if that is referring to post-masturbation or post-coitus but not sure it matters.


At least, I hope it is or I'll just look like a perv.
If that's the case, scratch my answer regarding myself, but the second part still stands, in the rare cases where it's relevant.
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Postby Sonikku13 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:05 pm

One typical ejaculation contains 150 mg of protein, 11 mg of carbohydrates, 6 mg of fat, 3 mg of cholesterol, 7% US RDA of potassium, and 3% US RDA of copper and zinc. Energy produced from it is 0.7 kcal, or 0.7 nutritional Calories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen#Nutritional_value
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Postby Janus%TheDoorman » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:11 pm

...

I'm not sure whether I'm more disturbed that you brought that up, or that it occurs to me that having easy and immediate access to that information doesn't automatically make you someone to avoid.

It's like all the self-defense observations I learned as a kid are fading away. People talking to themselves in the grocery store aren't crazy anymore, they're just on bluetooth headsets. People who can quote the nutritional value of semen aren't sexual deviants, they can just use Wikipedia.

It's getting harder to know when it's time to get the hell out of dodge.
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Luet
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Postby Luet » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:50 pm

I'm not sure whether I'm more disturbed that you brought that up
I would have to go with this.
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Postby locke » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:37 am

it was more or less a joke. I figured I'd put it up for 24 hours, no one would even notice the poll changed and then I'd delete it or change the poll for real. :-p

I think I got the idea ages ago by trying to come up with a topic of discussion as gross to girls as discussion of lady cups/emptying lady cups are to guys. But I never worked up the gumption to post it. And at the same time this is a potentially useful discussion to guys, as it addresses an issue we all deal with. Seriously guys, TP is not nearly good enough, kleenex is far better, and completely discrete to have in the bedroom, next to the bed, but a papertowel sheet (the choose a size narrow kind) is just about perfect for a residue free clean that grabs all excess moisture. Kleenex can lead to streaking and TP just tears too easy and isn't sturdy enough to handle the moisture content.

clothing is just gross, and besides it often leaves a stain, even after washing, on white clothing.

A shower is nice, and all, but damned inconvenient most of the time.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:29 pm

a topic of discussion as gross to girls as discussion of lady cups/emptying lady cups are to guys
May I roll my eyes at you? I'm not sure either should be considered gross. I'll admit, I'm not a fan of Lady Cup type stuff but that is for reasons wholly unrelated to it being "gross" or not. I don't see how clean up is at all gross.



Oh, I know you weren't asking me, because the logistics are way different, but definitely shower.
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Postby Luet » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:34 pm

I'm not sure whether I'm more disturbed that you brought that up
I would have to go with this.
Just to clarify, Adam, I think we were both referring to Sonikku's post.
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Postby powerfulcheese04 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:38 pm

a topic of discussion as gross to girls as discussion of lady cups/emptying lady cups are to guys
May I roll my eyes at you? I'm not sure either should be considered gross. I'll admit, I'm not a fan of Lady Cup type stuff but that is for reasons wholly unrelated to it being "gross" or not. I don't see how clean up is at all gross.
I agree with Alea. Neither period blood nor semen are "gross"... though, I don't particularly enjoy talking about either.

Well, ok, actually talking about semen can be entertaining. Did you know it's perfectly normal to find sperm in the urinary bladder of intact male dogs if you do a urinalysis by cystocentesis (poking the bladder with a needle through the skin to get urine)?

As far as clean up involving me and semen, condoms are pretty excellent because i'm not involved in clean up at all. Otherwise, TP works just fine on my end.
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Postby Jebus » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:17 pm


Well, ok, actually talking about semen can be entertaining. Did you know it's perfectly normal to find sperm in the urinary bladder of intact male dogs if you do a urinalysis by cystocentesis (poking the bladder with a needle through the skin to get urine)?
This is why science people don't get invited to parties.

And yea, you forgot to put condoms in the poll, locke. Using condoms for masturbation is referred to around here as a "posh wank". I've never done it myself, because frankly it sounds like it would reduce the fun.

For myself, I use whatever is available and disposable, this is usually toilet paper.

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Postby Sonikku13 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:35 pm

I could also comment that there isn't a choice on this poll of not cleaning it up. After all, evaporation is a nice process.
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