The Guys not talking about Guy Stuff Thread

[locke]

Clearly, Jebus, if it's a woman going through the intersection, we should be smart enough to turn it green for her.

Ollie wins the thread.

and, syphon, guys going by sonar sounds like the germ of a good (goofy) story idea.

[Gravity Defier]

Sure I could have. But what you seemed to miss was me saying that my brothers were consistently good about the seat being down with that one time I fell in being the exception. I had no reason to think, especially so early in the morning, it would be necessary to check.

The other thing that happened was when I was in junior high and staying at my dad's for a week because my mom was out of town. The bedroom I was staying in had two doors, one that led into a bedroom and one that led into a storage space (um, yeah, it was the singularly most idiotic floorplan ever). I woke up and out of habit, went to where my door should have been and then started panicking because I had no idea where I was. By the time I remembered, I had to go pretty badly, so I rushed to the bathroom and again, not wanting to wake myself up any more than I had at that point, I kept the light off and discovered just a moment too late that the lid was down.

[Syphon the Sun]

Well, in that case, I'm not entirely sure how it's an "argument" against my position...

[Gravity Defier]

I guess I wasn't arguing so much as just trying to say, there may be reasons it could be an issue to just look. During the day, I have no arguments against just looking and that being perfectly fair to expect. Feeling, well, that kinda squicks me out but I also don't understand why you guys can't go standing with the seat down without causing a mess. Or can you and I'm not getting this bathroom crap?


[Make sense? Am I still being non-sensical to you? (serious question, I thought I was being clear before)]

[mr_thebrain]

you know, we have this wonderful thing that makes it seem like it should be so easy to aim. but there is quite a few times where even if aim is perfect it still shoots off to the side. and then there's dribbles. going with the seat down IS possible but it takes too much effort to keep the seat dry. would you rather the seat not be there or be there and be wet?

[Syphon the Sun]

So, basically, the reason it may be an issue to look is if you're used to it being down and it's suddenly left up? Okay, I'll buy that. But for those of us who are pretty consistent about leaving it up, I'm not totally sure how it applies. But if you're saying the reason is that because it's dark and you don't want to wake yourself up, I'd still have to point out that it's not too much to ask that you check by feeling the back for the lid/seat before plopping down.

As far as why we can't pee with the seat down, there are a few reasons. First, the tip sometimes sticks together, which can cause the stream to go off in a direction you're not aiming. Secondly, our pee is liquid, not a beam of light. It's basic physics and water pressure. Add that to the splash effect and dribble effect, as well as the fact that the seat hole is smaller than the toilet, the chances we'll pee on the seat are significant.

[neo-dragon]

I also don't understand why you guys can't go standing with the seat down without causing a mess. Or can you and I'm not getting this bathroom crap?

You're asking for the moon, missy.

[Gravity Defier]

I'm not asking for anything. I don't have a penis, it would have been inappropriate to watch my brothers and seeing as they never gave me these issues I had no reason to even think of asking, and I've never lived with a penis, so why should I know what's it like and why you do or don't do things?

This is the stupidest thing to argue or complain about and I thank the heavens above that it's an argument I've only seemed to stumble upon with you people. Toilet seat should be attached to the toilet; beyond that, work on the details together as far as up, down, 45 degree angles are concerned, get separate toilets, or live apart.

I am so done with this topic.

[neo-dragon]

Sorry. Didn't mean to "piss" you off.

[mr_thebrain]

heh, yeah. urine a mood!

[Gravity Defier]

What, you think I'm going to take this s*** from you two sitting down? I am downright flushed with anger! But no worries, I can get a handle on myself.

Once I do, the pressure of getting you to understand my position will be gone since this is clearly an open and shut case, what with it being a misunderstanding. What a relief!

[mr_thebrain]

pottymouth.

[CezeN]

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER =D
(You guys made me laugh though)
Just wanted to say: I actually go with the seat down. And, don't really have problems.*shrug* Maybe I have good aim?
And I just use toilet paper to wipe any stray drops that get on the seat...

[VelvetElvis]

Here's a man I could live with!

[CezeN]

lol
I'll put that down on my list of things a woman wants.

-Guy who pees with seat down

[locke]

ya learn something new everyday:

Testosterone is circadian and it peaks in the AM hours right around the time you're waking up. That's why most guys get a 'good morning' erection. (also probably why that erection is sometimes referred to as the 'best' erection of the day).

[CezeN]

=o
Good to know.

I've always wondered that...I'm like "Did I have a wet dream and like forget", since I never remember any dreams...

[neo-dragon]

If you had a wet dream wouldn't there be some... you know... further evidence?

[Mich]

That was my thinking.

[CezeN]

That's how flawed my thinking is early in the morning.

[Gravity Defier]

Have you males ever friend-zoned a girl? If so, after how long and why?



Part of why I take issue with the ladder theory that Adam posted earlier this month is that sexual interest is not the same as romantic interest, so that link saying a guy would sleep with any of his girl friends if she offered seemed to be beside the point since his sleeping with a girl friend would only prove he was willing to have friends with benefits.


Just for the record, the question and the long statement after were better connected in my head. Also, not asking for personal reasons, it was something I read about earlier today. In case that matters.

[Mich]

I totally have. Now, I'm no expert in the friend zone, but I'm pretty sure that it's not how some people view it, in that one consciously puts a person into the friend zone (as this individual seems to believe), but just soething that naturally occurs. Anyway, it was just a few weeks ago. We've been friends since second grade, and it has become increasingly obvious that she wants to be "more than friends," and she's pretty serious about it.

Actually, funny story, she had started to be way more insistent about hanging out at our apartment than usual last year in the spring, and my roommate and I just figured it was because she's super territorial, my roommate is a girl, you do the math. After a while of her doing this and completely bugging the hell out of the both of us, we finally decided it wasn't just protectiveness, it was jealousy, and proof that my friend was worried my roommate was going to be "the girl in my life," so to speak. Anyway, about a month or so before summer intersession, my friend and my next-door-neighbor started dating. "Aha," says my roommate and I. "So she wanted to hang out with us so badly because of him!" Of course, we had no real theories as to why he wanted to reciprocate because we both find her very annoying in an endearing sort of way, but whatever.

Anyway, they broke up over the summer (his choice), I came back to Moscow in August, and, naturally, my friend wanted to hang out more. And then more. And then was very insistent, again. And then, in a very awkward conversation when I was driving her back to her house, twenty miles away, she almost straight-up asked me why we couldn't date.

Transcript as follow.

Her: "So, now that I'm going to U of I, I should probably move here from Pullman."
Me: "You think?"
Her: "Problem is, I need a roommate to afford apartments."
Me: "Well, you should definitely find one that is cool, attractive, and single. And female, for obvious reasons." (And, in retrospect, I totally set myself up for the following.)
Her: "You know, I think there might be a cool, attractive, single female in the car with you!"
Me: (hesitation) "I meant one I can date. It would be weird with you."
Her: "What's so weird about it? I would totally be all for it."
Me: "..."
Her: "I mean, my parents were best friends before they started dating!"
My roommate: "Wow, did you just think you would die? That sounds so awkward!"

Now, (and this is a secret, so don't tell anyone!) my roommate is a very cool person. I think that if she wanted to date, I'd be all for it, even though we're cruising along just fine as friends. However, this friend in particular, no. I would never date her, and not just because I find her personality grating after spending large periods of time with her. She is a great friend, and I like her a lot, but not as dating material.

So I'm really hoping that answers your question! Also, in case you couldn't tell, I apparently wanted to Dear Bob that one. Probably should have.

[elfprince13]

Have you males ever friend-zoned a girl? If so, after how long and why?

Yes. If you have any depth at all as a human being you realize pretty quickly that most friendships are more important/meaningful than sex-potential. There are a significant number of (fairly attractive) girls who I really enjoy spending time with and with whom I also have no interest in starting a dating (or in any way sexual) relationship with. Granted, I'm also of the "wait-til-marriage" school of thought as far as sex is concerned, but that doesn't do away with the friend-zone/dating-material disparity.

[locke]

hmm, sort of and sort of not.

the ladder theory applies to most all my female friends. naturally if they're taken they're off the ladder, but *shrug* that doesn't mean I haven't thought of it. even female friends I'm not really attracted to. Mainly friendzoning has happened if she's way outside my age range, and even then, it's more low on the ladder than really off it (mrs. Robinson you're trying to seduce me arent' you) or in a work environment--though even in work flirting happens

but it's not like there are distinct ladders. Single ladder, people can climb and descend upon it, but for the most part it incorporates everyone.

I have perhaps friend-zoned one person I was suspecting was interested in me, but then later rescinded that probably because she came across as a bit crazy at first but I later came to see she was a pretty normal variety of crazy. and I think that's more a defense mechanism by having been hurt by some pretty intense and exotic variety of crazy before, so first sign of it, walls went up--otoh, throughout this friendzoning I was still interested in her sexually, I just wasn't going to allow myself to ponder a relationship, and since I wasn't going to let myself get involved sexually without an accompanying relationship it just went nowhere. So she was both on the ladder and friendzoned simultaneously. I think for guys like me it's not so much that the friendzone is a separate ladder but simply a different section of the ladder that's not allowed to become high priority.

That probably makes more sense in my head than it does to read it.

[Brian]

No, Locke, that makes sence, But whats annoying is trying to figure out if you are in their friend zone or on the ladder.

So can someone explain this ladder thing to me or give me a link, i'm lost. I have the general idea, i think...

[neo-dragon]

I can't say that I've ever friend-zoned a girl.

[Jebus]

I recently friend-zoned a girl who wanted more because I'm already in a casual relationship and I found that two relationships, even as casual as they would have been, is too much for me to concentrate on.

I think even if guys do have a Friend Ladder, girls high up on that ladder have definitely not been crossed off the Sex List, just the Relationship List.

[zeroguy]

Have you males ever friend-zoned a girl?

No.

[Jebus]

So I have a stalker (previously mentioned friend-zoned girl), and last night she managed to worm her way into my bed again. I was pretty tired last night and not interested in doing anything with her, but she was pretty insistant upon it (fondling me while my eyes were closed and what not) and of course got her way, several times in fact, despite my consistant attempts to go to sleep and get her to leave me alone.

Now, none of this particularly bothers me apart from the fact that I had another night without much sleep, but I was thinking about how if the situation had been reversed how incredibly inappropriate it would be for me to do the same to a girl, and why is it that women have such an incredible issue with feeling pressured into sex? What is it about sex for women that makes a guy a bastard if he tries to be a little pushy about sex? Women are adults too and have every ability to say no.

Now, when it comes to girls under 18 who are resistant to having sex I understand, they're idiots and are easily manipulated so should be respected, I'm talking just about adults here.

[Gravity Defier]

What is it about sex for women that makes a guy a bastard if he tries to be a little pushy about sex? Women are adults too and have every ability to say no.

The quoted part seems a bit contradictory to me. You say women can say no but then don't understand why a guy being pushy is bad?

Perhaps it is because a guy being pushy means he is not listening to/believing her when she says no (if she were saying yes, there would be no need for pushiness), which is usually not code for "Don't you know I'm playing hard to get? Keep trying and I'll eventually give in." If I'm saying no, it's for a reason and typically a very good one (by my standards), though let me point out, if I say no for a stupid reason, I'm still saying no.

Reasons I will say no:
Fear of pregnancy/STDs/the guy himself.
Unsure about his motives; basically, is he using me for sex? I won't sleep with someone outside a relationship; I can't do casual.
Assuming I could do casual, I just may not be attracted.
Feeling crappy from being on my period or just sick in general.


I don't know; I hate to say it, Paul, but you're coming off to me as being very stereotypically male in that with enough effort on a girl's part, you'll sleep with just about anyone who throws themself at you. Maybe that's unfair of me to say, so feel free to call me out on that.

[neo-dragon]

I don't know... I think Jebus is just pointing out the double standard when it comes to sexual aggressiveness. But it can't be helped. I can't think of many situations that I honestly believe qualify as a woman raping a man, but for a man pressuring a woman the line between reluctance and rape is very thin. Of course women can say "no", but that obviously doesn't always work. I can understand why society keeps men on a shorter leash.

[Jebus]

I don't know; I hate to say it, Paul, but you're coming off to me as being very stereotypically male in that with enough effort on a girl's part, you'll sleep with just about anyone who throws themself at you. Maybe that's unfair of me to say, so feel free to call me out on that.

Oh now Alea, don't be silly. Of course I'm stereoptypically male.

No, but seriously, if you honestly believe there is a man on the planet that would avoid having sex with a pretty girl who has climbed into bed to beg him to have sex with her when he's pretty drunk then you haven't been spending much time around men, or the ones you have been are liars. We're dogs, biologically programmed to want as much sex as we can get. A feature which makes our lives incredibly delightful and very frustrating all at the same time.


I think neo's right though. A man can't be raped by a woman, not in the emotionally devastating way that a women can be anyway. It's the threat of what a man can do that makes respecting the women's decision and not pushing her so ultimately important.

[Gravity Defier]

Yes, I get the double standard and I can't find a reason to argue against what he said (with the exception of the part I quoted; I really do think you're an ass if you say "you can always say no" and then not accept that and back off when the woman very clearly exercised that right to say no)...

Stereotypes about men being easy are really the only argument I have -I guess I could also claim it's just a biological/evolutionary thing that makes men and women treat sex differently in some aspects- but don't get me wrong, I think it's just as wrong for a woman to pressure a man if he really is against sleeping with her. I'm not sure Paul was against it though; he did say the only thing that bothered him in the end was him losing some sleep.

I still don't think I've properly explained myself. Oh well.

[Gravity Defier]

Attn: Canadian men


Your hockey team is better than ours, or so I heard on the news, and you did manage to win...so I'll go with that but lately, I've been hearing your men, in general, are better than their American counterparts, specifically with regards to their treatment of women. Is this so and why would you say that is?

Very. Important. Question.

[Mommy Brontosaurus]

They are because I married the best man on the planet and he's Canadian.

QED, Canadian men are better.