Is God a Jack@ss?

[BeansBrother]

You know what I have figured out? God is a d!ck

I think I said that, or maybe I heard it somewhere, but either way, it turns out that many people have mixed thoughts on God's own morality.

For instance, a lot of people refer to the "Old Testament God" as the one who punishes any and all sins, the one who crushes cities for a single unbeliever.

Then there are people who believe that the Old Testament God is kind, who think that he is the true God (specifically Jews).

Then, there are people who believe that the New Testament God is a kind, forgiving God that loves and cares for all.

Other opinions including Hinduism, Daoism, etc. have other opinions of their God/Gods.

But either way, I want to know everyone's opinion on what God is like. Do you think he is a jerk, who punishes spitefully and impusively? Or do you think he is a kind, forgiving God?

Does he grant miracles? Or only things to harm those who have "sinned?"

-BB

EDIT: To make it more clear, this is a post meant to invite discussion of an ACTIVE God.

[Wil]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

[BeansBrother]

But what is your personal opinion?

[Janus%TheDoorman]

I find it interesting that you've only offered scenarios where God is a sentient and willful, active force. Although I haven't exactly taken a poll, but I'd say that at least half the people I know hold different views.

[BeansBrother]

Ah. You are for the "God is a force" kind of person?

[Janus%TheDoorman]

No, not precisely. It's late here, too late for me to explain my impression of God, but for now, suffice it to say that I found your initial questions to be entirely too limited for this sort of discussion. I don't mean to suggest that it's wrong - your experience is you own, and perhaps it's revealed to you something to which I yet remain blinded, but I know and have known people who spent lifetimes searching for "God", and more often than not it leads them to more possibilities, rather than fewer.

If all you're looking for is a discussion within the scope of an active God, then that's fine, but that wasn't clear from your initial post.

[BeansBrother]

Oh. Well, I will edit my post to make it more clear.

[Azarel]

I believe this:

The 'Old testament God' is the same as the 'New Testament God'. Consider that in what people call the 'old covenant' he was declaring to the Jews that they were His chosen people. He laid down the 'law' (ten commandments, and the other 603 rules by which Jews are meant to live) and in laying down the law, he created (what Wil refers to as the darkness) the opportunity for the Jews to break that very law. Why would they break the law? Because they are human, and original sin is simply disobedience and therefore it is inevitable that they would break the law because they undoubtebly try to keep to it by their own strength (saying things like 'I must do this, I must not do that') and then failing. Many year went by with many Jews doing it on their own strength and to remind them that they needed God to be 'pure of heart' enough to be with God, He built up nations against them (Egypt, Persia and more...)

Now, what God sent Jesus for was to remind the Jews and then go on to reveal to the whole world that you need only keep TWO commandments in your heart:

1 - Love the Lord you God with all your heart, mind and strength.
2 - Love each other, as I have loved you.

"...as I have loved you..." loved... past tense. God has always been a loving God. God has always been an active God.

God has not (in my knowledge) destroyed a city because of one sinner but rather... "I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." (Luke 15:10

I've been writing two responses at the same time and now I've lost my train of thought, but I'll leave what I've written so far.

EDIT: The other thing I wanted to say to BeansBrother is this... The third temple, is you.

[jotabe]

So God made the jewish his chosen people. And in exchange for the honor of worshipping Him, he would have them wander in the desert for many years. And if they didn't worship Him enough, then he would raise other nations to destroy them.
And if they worshiped Him enough, he would give them supernatural help to destroy the enemy population.

And you see nothing wrong with it?

"I love you, but if you don't worship me, I'll break you". Where have i heard that before?

[Azarel]

So God made the jewish his chosen people. And in exchange for the honor of worshipping Him, he would have them wander in the desert for many years. And if they didn't worship Him enough, then he would raise other nations to destroy them.
And if they worshiped Him enough, he would give them supernatural help to destroy the enemy population.

And you see nothing wrong with it?

"I love you, but if you don't worship me, I'll break you". Where have i heard that before?

Um I'm sensing you haven't understood the account of the years wandering in the desert.

The journey from Egypt to the promised land was only supposed to last 11 days.

Numbers 13:30-33
30 Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, "We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it."

31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are." 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

...Basically the scouts lied to the others...

Numbers 14:1-24 "The People Rebel"
1 That night all the members of the community raised their voices and wept aloud. 2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this wilderness! 3 Why is the LORD bringing us to this land only to let us fall by the sword? Our wives and children will be taken as plunder. Wouldn't it be better for us to go back to Egypt?" 4 And they said to each other, "We should choose a leader and go back to Egypt."

...They presumed the worst instead of believing God's promise to them.

5 Then Moses and Aaron fell facedown in front of the whole Israelite assembly gathered there. 6 Joshua son of Nun and Caleb son of Jephunneh, who were among those who had explored the land, tore their clothes 7 and said to the entire Israelite assembly, "The land we passed through and explored is exceedingly good. 8 If the LORD is pleased with us, he will lead us into that land, a land flowing with milk and honey, and will give it to us. 9 Only do not rebel against the LORD. And do not be afraid of the people of the land, because we will devour them. Their protection is gone, but the LORD is with us. Do not be afraid of them."

Caleb pleads with them to stick to God's plan and remain faithful, but...

10 But the whole assembly talked about stoning them. Then the glory of the LORD appeared at the tent of meeting to all the Israelites. 11 The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the signs I have performed among them? 12 I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they."

13 Moses said to the LORD, "Then the Egyptians will hear about it! By your power you brought these people up from among them. 14 And they will tell the inhabitants of this land about it. They have already heard that you, LORD, are with these people and that you, LORD, have been seen face to face, that your cloud stays over them, and that you go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. 15 If you put these people to death all at one time, the nations who have heard this report about you will say, 16 'The LORD was not able to bring these people into the land he promised them on oath, so he slaughtered them in the wilderness.'

17 "Now may the Lord's strength be displayed, just as you have declared: 18 'The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.' 19 In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now."

20 The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth, 22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times— 23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their ancestors. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it. 24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.

God had to crush me before I took notice and changed my life. He had to do it to the Jews too. Being a parent isn't easy, especially when you have 6.4 billion children, most of whom couldn't give a s*** about you.



--
Source: http://www.biblegateway.com

[jotabe]

Dunno about you, but my parents never needed to crush me so i could see i was wrong. If my parents can find better ways, surely God can, too.

And those scouts, unknowingly, did something good: they saved many lives, the lives of those who lived in the cities the hebrews were meant to conquer... only because they don't believe in God, doesn't mean they deserve to die to make room for those who believe.

[BeansBrother]

So God made the jewish his chosen people. And in exchange for the honor of worshipping Him, he would have them wander in the desert for many years. And if they didn't worship Him enough, then he would raise other nations to destroy them.
And if they worshiped Him enough, he would give them supernatural help to destroy the enemy population.

And you see nothing wrong with it?

"I love you, but if you don't worship me, I'll break you". Where have i heard that before?

Not to be nit-picky, but if I am correct, which I am pretty sure I am, the reason the Jews were "forced" to wander the desert for fourty years was because the whole entire generation that came out of Egypt were slaves. They had lived that way for 500 years, so they knew no other way to live.

The reason fourty years, therefore, is so that the slave generation could die (I can safely assume that 3,000 years ago, the average span of life was 30-50), and the new generation would be raised free.

Then, when there were none left from the time of Egypt (besides Mosheh and Aharon, of course), they were allowed passage into Aretz Yisrael (the land of Israel), to live in the land of milk and honey and be free.

Secondly, I think the whole thing about "I love you, but if you don't worship me, I'll crush you" kind of thing is a little bit harsh to describe God. Afterall, aren't there many atheists/agnostics who do not worship God, yet they are not "crushed?"

[jotabe]

Jewish people in the time the Exodus was written didn't majoritarily believe in the afterlife. So, for them, "crushing" had to happen during the life.
For us, with our belief in the afterlife, Hell is enough "crushing" as it is.

[BeansBrother]

I don't even think that the whole 40 years thing was a form of "crushing." I think God/Mosheh had a good, coherent reason for staying in the desert for 40 years.

[jotabe]

<_<
>_>

Even accepting that, what about the multiple "crushings" Israel apparently suffered along its history, according to the old testament? What about the crushing of the people who already lived in the land that God had promised to Moses' people? Or what about the seven plagues, included the massacre of all the first-borns?

[BeansBrother]

First question:

Wasn't it 10 plagues? Not seven...?

Second (more of a statement):

I don't necessarily agree that it was good for God to have "crushed" the people of Israel. I get the point you are trying to make. God could have been "kinder" I guess.

[Azarel]

The point you make, BB about the slave generation, is a good one if we are only looking at the human element of the situation. But we're not looking at that are we? This is God's relationship with His chosen people we're talking about.

They should have trusted that going into the promised land when they were told would have worked out. But they didn't, and yes then God spent 40 years waiting for the doubters to die off and let a more trusting generation go forth.

Now, do I believe the doubters went to hell, unforgiven? No, because God said he forgave them! Which means they probably went to heaven anyway!

So where in the long-run was God cruel to them? I mean, if he brought them into heaven after death, which ultimately leads them to an eternity of being with God... Then surely he's being kind enough, no?

As for the multiple crushings, well think of it in the way that the leaders of battle school made an example of Ender and Bean, created and raised up enemies for them in the form Achilles, and Bonzo to ensure they could cope with anything?

The Jews are still alive today, after all the killings, the wars, the slavery, the facism, the racism, the ghettos... Surely that is a testament to their resilience and God's love for them.

I don't blame them for doubting, ever. It's natural (sadly) to doubt everything you believe in from time to time.

If your parents have never grounded you (which in effect is what God did to the desert dwelling Jews in numbers 14) then you must have been very well behaved or they didn't see that form of punishment necessary or whatever reason, but then not every parent behaves the same way.

If you want answers to the multiple crushings you have to read the accounts again, and again, trying to understand what they were being asked to do or find out what somebody did to disobey God.

Please continue to understand that I really don't want to sound harsh in my responses, I'm enjoying this debate and I hope I'm making anyone feel like I think their opinion is rubbish, if I come across as stern or harsh I imagine its because I believe this strongly. I need to point out that I care greatly for Jewish people. I trust in the fact that Christianity is founded on the Jewish people and their God, but I truly believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that HE came to bring everyone on earth back to God if they just believe in Him. I believe Messianic Jews are Jews who have fulfilled God's desire for them to know him fully. I have the Messianic Jewish translation of the Bible for instance, to read the Bible without all the Anti-Jewish translations and theology. I just thought I'd clarify a little.

[Slim]

Azarel, you just said everything I was thinking. This saves on typing.

I just want to add that seems like God is cruel and unfair for the same reason we, as children, may have thought our parents were cruel and unfair. As we grow physically, we realize, "Oh, they were looking out for us the whole time." I believe that as we grow spiritually, we will realize the same about our Heavenly Father.

[BeansBrother]

Slim, that actually makes a lot of sense. I completely agree, and now that you say it, it makes me see that there is no other reason why these "cruelties" would be there in the first place.

[jotabe]

There is no possible comparison between being grounded and being killed. How the people "killed by an act of God" say eventually "oh he was looking out for us the whole time", specially if they died in their sins and went to hell?

How can people in Hell, suffering eternally, think of God being anything but cruel and unfair? Eternal torture is just too much for any sin one might have committed, specially if the only sin is unbelief. Unless you think the oppinion of the people in Hell do not count.

What about people who has lost loved ones to Hell? Will they be happy knowing their loved ones are suffering forever? Will they forgive God for this?

[Azarel]

What about people who has lost loved ones to Hell? Will they be happy knowing their loved ones are suffering forever? Will they forgive God for this?

Well Jotabe, I believe that it is up to them how to deal with that loss. I don't like to think of any of my friends who do not believe in God of being lost to hell one day, but I have to accept that if they do not choose to believe, then that is what would happen.

But I will say that, as is told in the Bible accounts of people being healed because of somebody else's faith (The servant being healed because his Roman master believed Jesus was who he said he was, and the man who was carried on a stretcher being healed because his friends had faith and wanted him healed, then maybe it possible for God, on the strength of a loved one's faith to save them that eternal separation. Granted this idea might also depend on the idea purgatory and after having really listened to what Catholics have to say (I'm a Baptist personally) I think I can live with the idea of a waiting place for some, if not all souls.

One other thing to think about, is the story of the rich man who did not help the poor man, both of whom died and the rich man went to hell and from that place could see and talk to the poor man in heaven and asked him for water but they could not meet or interact. The rich man asked that he be allowed to warn his brothers, that they do not end up in hell like him. So possibly there is the eventual realisation after all?

EDIT: Jotabe, I just wanted to state, God did not kill the doubting Jews in the desert. He gave them 40 years of life in the desert during which many children would have been born! The psalms say that Children are a reward from God and are our heritage! So it was merely old age that killed them. He did not end their lives, he simply barred them from entering the promised land. So really, they were just grounded. Also as I pointed out, he forgave them for doubting because Moses asked Him, which again is another example of people being saved on the strength of someone elses faith!

2nd Edit (For great justice): Thanks Slim for adding your point which softens what I was saying, I have to go back and read over what I write, I can come across quite severe without meaning to!

[Slim]

There is no possible comparison between being grounded and being killed. How the people "killed by an act of God" say eventually "oh he was looking out for us the whole time", specially if they died in their sins and went to hell?

How can people in Hell, suffering eternally, think of God being anything but cruel and unfair? Eternal torture is just too much for any sin one might have committed, specially if the only sin is unbelief. Unless you think the opinion of the people in Hell do not count.

What about people who has lost loved ones to Hell? Will they be happy knowing their loved ones are suffering forever? Will they forgive God for this?

You aren't thinking nth dimensionally!

To God, death means coming home. It is not necessarily a punishment. The young children of the Egyptians killed in the 10th plague return to our Heavenly Father and inherit Eternal Life.

The unbelieving Canaanites would have (and in fact, did) die in their sins anyway. I'm sure if they would have repented, God would send them someone to teach the gospel (as with Jonah and Nineveh). Beyond that one of the things I believe is that those that did not hear the gospel in life mortality hear it before the Final Judgment. (as I already discussed in Why?)

What about people with loved ones that go to hell? Probably big enough to be it's own topic. But my view put simply: God is one of those with loved ones in hell. He loves us all more than anyone else does. But if He was able to let everyone into heaven, it wouldn't be heaven anymore, would it?

[jotabe]

If life is so worthless that can be arbitrarily used by God to set an example, or to make room to a group of people he sets as chosen ones, what is the point of living, anyhow?

And why is killing babies ok for God and not for us? Because if it is such a good thing for the baby to be killed while he hasn't had time to have sinned, it should always be done. Still, God forbid it.
How can we trust a judge that sets himself so high over humans that doesn't have to obey his own laws? How can he love us when he sets himself at a higher level than us? Love between equals matters. Love from a person to their pets isn't so relevant.

With a being like that in Heaven, it really doesn't look like Heaven anymore.

[Slim]

If life is so worthless that can be arbitrarily used by God to set an example, or to make room to a group of people he sets as chosen ones, what is the point of living, anyhow?

And why is killing babies ok for God and not for us? Because if it is such a good thing for the baby to be killed while he hasn't had time to have sinned, it should always be done. Still, God forbid it.
How can we trust a judge that sets himself so high over humans that doesn't have to obey his own laws? How can he love us when he sets himself at a higher level than us? Love between equals matters. Love from a person to their pets isn't so relevant.

With a being like that in Heaven, it really doesn't look like Heaven anymore.

Here's another question: Why didn't the Pharaoh learn his lesson after nine plagues? Moses told the Pharaoh what the 10th plague would be, and the Pharaoh still did nothing. In my opinion, it was the Pharaoh that condemned the firstborn to death.

Life is not worthless. It is given to us to learn and grow spiritually. If we choose not to take the opportunity, then we are the ones making our lives worthless (at least as far as life goes on an eternal perspective.) Also, it is through the sins of others that our lives may be cut short, but we will not be held responsible for the sins of others.

I believe God does obey his own laws. He doesn't set himself higher than us, he is higher than us. But we are not his pets, we are literally his children.

Love between equals matters? Does that mean parents cannot love their children because we are below our parents? If equality does matter, then why don't we let God bring us up to his level? I believe that is the whole point to life: God is trying to allow us (His children) to grow up spiritually to eventually become like Him.

Okay, I don't intend to sound preachy, so I will just repeat what I said before: It just seems like God is a jerk because we have not grown up yet, spiritually. When we do we will realize how much our Heavenly Father actually does love us.

[Bean_wannabe]

The way I see all the invasions of Israel by the Babylonians is that if they had not come, the people would not have turned back to God. If they had not turned back to God, they would not get forgiveness for their sins. If they did not get forgiveness, they would spend eternity in hell.

Therefore it was a good thing in the long run.

[BeansBrother]

If life is so worthless that can be arbitrarily used by God to set an example, or to make room to a group of people he sets as chosen ones, what is the point of living, anyhow?

And why is killing babies ok for God and not for us? Because if it is such a good thing for the baby to be killed while he hasn't had time to have sinned, it should always be done. Still, God forbid it.
How can we trust a judge that sets himself so high over humans that doesn't have to obey his own laws? How can he love us when he sets himself at a higher level than us? Love between equals matters. Love from a person to their pets isn't so relevant.

With a being like that in Heaven, it really doesn't look like Heaven anymore.

There is a famous Rabbi named RaMbaM (an acronym for Rabbi Moses ben Maimon). He once said that God does not have human-like feelings, but his actions make us think that he has these human-like feelings.

I believe this is completely true, and I will give my own opinions on it later. Anyway, by this meant that God is not compassionate, God is not cruel, God is not loving, God is not spiteful. God just does things that seem like it.

But in reality, God has none of these attributes.

This means that we cannot say that God loves anyone, just that God does not not-love someone.

Thus, in my opinion, God does not "feel" (that's not the right word, but it's the best I could come up with) anything when "ordering" the deaths of babies, or the invasion of nations. He just does it, and those actions have no feelings behind them. They just are.

Now in reference to your post, jotabe, I said this whole thing because I say that God does not love anybody. He just does actions that sometimes are good for one person/people, and/or bad for another person/people.

=====

Now for my opinion, I will take it a bit farther. and say that God has none of those feelings. Rambam said that he does not have any human-like feelings, but he has God-like feelings, just we are so simple that would could not understand them.

I say that God has no feelings. I believe that God is the force of nature. God, or I will now call him Nature, has "random" actions, that are just that, random. Nothing is meant to harm anybody, but at the same time, nothing is meant to help anybody.

They just happen.

Anyway, there's my two ce - no, it's more like... my $513.67.

[Azarel]

I think I understand what the Rabbi was trying to say by that, but in believing that God sent his son to die, to replace the animal sacrifices Jews had been required to make all those years, if God sent his only son to die for my mistakes and the mistakes and sin of everyone, then he must have feelings.

However, I do believe that his feelings and action are so great in magnitude and large in foresight that we don't understand them until a plan becomes fulfilled. This is why belief requires faith/trust in what you cannot see or understand fully.

However, with our differing opinions, I hope most if not all of us are coming to the conclusion that God is NOT a 'Jack@ss'

[Dr. Mobius]

How can something that doesn't exist be a jackass (or anything else, for that matter)?

[suminonA]

This thread must have been based on the implicit premise that, that "something" exists. Most (if not all) theologies do that. Not that I have any idea if the debate in this thread could be indexed under theology.

A.

[Jayelle]

How can something that doesn't exist be a jackass (or anything else, for that matter)?

If every debate in this forum is going to boil down to that, then there should just be one thread.

[Dr. Mobius]

Don't mind me, I'm the jackass. Or sleep-deprived. Probably a little of both. And bored. And various other things that lead me to open my mouth where and when I probably shouldn't.

[Locke_]

I would say that God is all emotions. Often in their faith a person attributes the periods of joy or excitement or passion or stimulation to God, and it is in these times when people tend to think, this is how God made me in his image. Then again... God gets disappointed, feels sorrow, gets jealous, and when it comes down to it the Bible describes God with all the "bad" emotions as much as the good. If God were to have created us with only the good emotions, and we all end up in heaven because we act only on the good, then we would get to heaven only understanding half of the way God feels. If we go to the perfectly divine afterlife without knowing God's sadness, disappointment, jealousy, or even wrath, then we would be in heaven without feeling the full spectrum of God's emotions while we were on earth.

The part I haven't figured out yet is at what point do our actions based on the "bad" emotions become evil, sinful and godless. This world is a test, I think, of not only what we are capable of doing, but of what we are capable of not doing.

And I feel that God in the new testament seems to have such a personality-shift of sorts specifically because He realized that He wasn't able to get through to His people fully without experiencing their pathos in full either. Just as we experience bits of His spectrum of emotions, I think in Jesus He was able to experience what it is like to feel those emotions on earth, and was better able--through Jesus in the gospels--to make His meaning more clear in terms of how He wants us to live, be, and follow Him.

Up until the New Testament, you gotta dig a little deeper into the books of the Bible to try to understand what God wanted you to do, and how. The Commandments are nice and all, but I think Christians can agree that Jesus's words are much easier to relate to and set a better pedestal to aim to climb.

In terms of God being a jackass, I'll be the first to admit that I have found myself thinking quite bitter thoughts toward God lately. Just finding him bitter more in general. And this is primarily a personal issue that I've taken up with Him, and have not had the balls to invite Him into such a confrtonation to help me deal with it. In a way, that'd be like telling my parents that I hate them and then ask them to help me not hate them. Not exactly and easy task. Not that I hate God or my parents, I'm just trying to give an example of the difficulty of the struggle.

However, when you do read into the Old Testament, you find God is just as merciful, he just doesn't sound as empathetic (which, based on what I've said above, rather makes sense). For example, Genesis: after Adam and Eve have easten the fruit, after they have been caught, but before they are sent out of the garden, the book says that God clothed them. He covered them so they would not feel ashamed when going into the world of hardships. He helped them and was with them even after they fell. An experience that I think can apply to my life every single day. That part of the story has quickly become one of my favorite in the Bible, because God is there mercifully and even empathetically. I think we're just so used to it being obvious in the New Testament that we're scared of the Old Testament because it is not so blatant.

[London]

If God is God, then he cannot in any possible way be a jerk/dick/a-hole etc. God himself ordained what is right. He created morality and fairness and is in every way perfect. No matter -what- he does he is always right, if he is God. Our own morals are obsolete compared to his Truth. God, even with we disagree with him, can NOT be wrong. He is what He is.

[BeansBrother]

If God is God, then he cannot in any possible way be a jerk/dick/a-hole etc. God himself ordained what is right. He created morality and fairness and is in every way perfect. No matter -what- he does he is always right, if he is God. Our own morals are obsolete compared to his Truth. God, even with we disagree with him, can NOT be wrong. He is what He is.

Yes, but it doesn't matter what he *should* be, I am talking about what the others in the community think God is. If someone donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to charity each year, yet he still shoves you into the dirt every single year, are you not allowed to call him a jerk?

This is the same with God. In the end, it really doesn't matter whether or not God is God. All that matters is our faith in him. And if we think he is a jerk, well, then who cares what he thinks? Do you think mean people are right, when they have no proof for their opinion?

[Locke_]

An occasional (long or short) personal bitterness toward God is... dare I say... almost natural and healthy(?). I think it poses a problem when your personal bitterness is projected in the way you talk about God to others. I know not whether I have a right to feel like he is a jerk, but I have no right to try to make others feel this way. I think it is those instances when I feel that there is something wrong with it.