Philotic Web

Okay, just watched the first episode of Season 4, where Donna comes back. I see that's the episode when this thread started, so I read your comments. I hated Donna in the Bride episode, she was less annoying in this episode but I still don't like her much. Does she get better? I looked on IMDB and see that she is here for the whole season. My husband and I were bummed about that.

She gets a little better by the end of the season and shows a bit of character development, to the point that it's kind of a stark contrast to how she was at the beginning of the season, but I still found her much more annoying than any other companion I've experienced. Reviews are generally mixed with her.

Love her old man, though.

Her father or her grandfather? The grandfather is who we met in the season premiere, right? Do we meet her father at some point too?

I honestly couldn't remember, so I just wrote "old man" . Her grandfather.

I never really cared for her, she always came off as annoying to me.

Her grandfather almost justifies her existence. Almost.

I looked through this thread but didn't see any mention of the special episode "The Water of Mars", between seasons 4 and 5. Let me know if I missed it.

Anyway, SPOILERS!

I liked the idea of this episode overall, it reminded me of the beginning of the book, Red Mars. But the behavior of the Doctor towards the end, seemed really out of character for him. I chalked it up to depression and frustration over Donna and losing people, etc. He almost seemed like a child having a temper tantrum except he was ranting against time instead of parents. I don't know, I was frustrated with him. I haven't seen the next episode, The End of Time, so I don't know if it was setting him up for something in that.

To me, The Waters of Mars is the climax of the Doctor's character arc in the new series. 9 was very angry, depressed, scared. Trying to come to grips with what the Time Lords had become in their war against the Daleks, what he had to do because of it, and the consequences thereof. Survivor's guilt is probably the best way to describe it. With the other Time
Lords gone, he feels like he should just disappear as well. 9's a lost more hesitant to intercede on a grand level. Compare his genuine amazement at things working out well in The Empty Child to how 10 acts right from the get go, playing with the Sycorax and ending Harriet Jones' career. 10 gets progressively more bold right up to The Waters of Mars where he decides to try and not just assume the duties the Time Lords once carried out as a civilization, safeguarding time and space, but actively rewriting it as he sees fit.

Spoilers for The End of Time and Series 5 and 6

In the End of Time, when the Time Lords actually do return, he's learned his lesson, and learned it hard. Not even the Time Lords can wield the sort of power they held without it corrupting them, and he's forced to seal them away again.

By series 5, the Doctor seems to have found a happy medium as just another force in the universe, safeguarding Earth and the innocent where he finds them, but everything's not as happy as it seems. This new isolation makes it difficult for him to form relationships. 10 mentioned that the physiological age barrier was difficult enough, but 11 is visibly hurt when Amy is willing to risk hers and the Doctor's death to save Rory, and the Dreamlord taunts him for it the whole way.

In series 6, it's been made even worse. Arguably his most personal relationship is with a woman who's only going to know him less and less as time goes on, and his decision to involve himself but on a very limited basis allows his enemies to make advances that cost not just him, but those closest to him, and the methods available to him only perpetuate conflict - the Pandorica Alliance and whoever Eye-Patch lady represents banding together to try and remove him from the equation.

How he'll resolve these issues is beyond me to say, but it's been made clear that he can't just continue on as he is.

Out of curiosity, any Torchwood fans here watching "Miracle Day"?

I've watched the first two episodes of it so far. I haven't been overly impressed. The end of the first episode had that terrible helicopter/jeep beach chase scene that was like something out of a Michael Bay film, and the second episode has a very extended MacGyver wanna be scene on a plane that was just all too contrived.

The direction it has gone, I'm just not happy with. I don't like the writing and I don't like the actual production. It just isn't Torchwood to me.

I'll keep watching, just because I hate stopping in the middle of something.

We are rewatching the first half of Season Six in preparation for Saturday's mid-season premiere. So excited!

Out of curiosity, any Torchwood fans here watching "Miracle Day"?

It's okay so far. Doesn't seem very who-universe, though.

Yeah, I was saying to my brother that they seem to be downplaying some of the more fantastic elements of the Who/Torchwood universe. I think it's because they're trying to Americanize it, and the general American audience can be a bit iffy with things that are too overtly sci-fi. That's my theory, anyway.

But I love the premise. It's fascinating to look at the implications of a world where people can't die.

The premise is quite interesting, just wish they hadn't Michael Bayed it...

So? So? New Episode anyone?

...Frankly, I was kinda annoyed by it. I've never been the biggest fan of River Song, and she was at her most obnoxious in this episode.

But! Glad to have it back, looking forward to more episodes.



PS> If any of us ever want to have a super-fun-super-secret conversation, this is clearly the thread to have it in, considering the number of people who avoid it.

I wasn't sure what to make of the last episode. Considering the title of it (Let's Kill Hitler), there was a surprising amount of non-Hitler related plot. I mean, really, the entire episode could have taken place ANYWHERE else.

I hated that Melody girl.

Also, everyone who avoids this thread sucks!

I actually really liked the episode. It was interesting to see River before she was the River we know now. I don't know if any of you watched Alex Kingston on the show ER but I found her incredibly annoying on that. My husband and I were just talking about how much more likeable she is as River Song.

I liked the episode, and I like River, even though she really is a Mary Sue character. I find the sheer confusion that is her history with the Doctor fascinating.

I find the sheer confusion that is her history with the Doctor fascinating.

Me too. I keep trying to piece it together.

I wanted to know whether Hitler ever made it out of the closet they stuffed him in...

I just imagined Hitler coming out of the closet...

teehee.

I'm sure that Hitler is one of the fixed points in history that can't be changed. I think that it rather added to the whole episode that it was called "Let's Kill Hitler" and there was no actual killing of Hitler.

I like River Song, and the confusion with her and the Doctor's story. I liked this episode a lot, not my favorites but it is definitely one of the great episodes of recent past. (I'm quite partial to "The Doctor's Wife" since I'm a bit of a Gaiman fan, and it was an amazing episode.)

I was mostly just annoyed with myself for not realizing who Mels was when she was introduced. I was expecting our next encounter with her to be when she was still rather young, temporally skipping over all of Melody's childhood caught me off guard.

So... doesn't the fact that River got her nickname because it was already her nickname constitute a paradox? Not nearly as big of one as the one from The Big Bang, but all the same. We should keep count.

And another big, ineffable mystery with the Silence and the Question. Great. Just as the loops around River and Melody show signs of beginning to close, we get a whole new set of paths this could go down. I swear they're making it up as they go along.

I think it's cool thought that they planned River before Amy and Rory even came onto the show. Her first appearance was when the tenth doctor was still around with Donna. Granted, there were only a handful of episodes left with them but still, I thought it was cool.

All right, so, presumably, the Silence arranged for the perfect weapon to kill the Doctor because he turned humanity against them.

However, if the Silence hadn't set out to turn Melody into that weapon, the Doctor may never have run across the Silence in the first place.

So, has the Doctor done something else to piss off the Silence that we haven't seen yet?

Or is the Silence just stupid?

To me it kind of feels like all of the above, and that the writers have gotten a little lost. I sure hope they can sort out all the threads and paradoxes, but I suspect at least some of them are going to end up being handwaved away or just forgotten. Long plotlines can be fun, but if it's a choice between standalone eps and a "Lost" type situation, I'd prefer the standalones.

I guess I don't mind the "lost" (in both sense of the words) plot lines because I have a terrible memory. So, unless someone reminds me, I don't remember that they were unresolved. I guess that's one benefit to the memory loss side effects of my meds.

So... doesn't the fact that River got her nickname because it was already her nickname constitute a paradox?

That bit did bug me a bit.

Season finale tonight! It seem like the season just started. Probably because of the mid-season break.

I'm excited, but nervous. I'm not a huge fan of River Song in general, and I feel like the end of the last episode was played like "Isn't this a shock!!??? River kills the Doctor!" when it's been kinda obvious. So I'm hoping that it's something totally different.

I was talking to someone recently about the Russell Davies years vs the Stephen Moffat years and I think that while Davies' weakness was individual episodes, his strength was season arcs that you don't see coming (Bees, Saxon, Bad Wolf), whereas Moffat is really good at individual episodes, but kinda hits you over the head with season arcs.

I finally got around to watching the last few episodes and I was highly, HIGHLY underwhelmed. That was it? Blah.

I was talking to someone recently about the Russell Davies years vs the Stephen Moffat years and I think that while Davies' weakness was individual episodes, his strength was season arcs that you don't see coming (Bees, Saxon, Bad Wolf), whereas Moffat is really good at individual episodes, but kinda hits you over the head with season arcs.

That is an excellent observation, dead on! The episodes this season have been AMAZING, but that finale and the story arc were very blah.

I'm rewatching the Eccleston season, forgot how much I loved his stupid face. A quote I found from him a long time ago:

My bony face is like a car crash. I haven't got good looks, just weird looks, enough to frighten the fiercest monster.

Anyway, also forgot how much I liked Mickey.

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight would make an awesome Christmas episode.

The BBC has a separate show for that. It's called Merlin.

Just because Gaius is A doctor doesn't mean that he is THE Doctor. And Merlin is far too awkward about magic to be the Doctor