Cause Workin' Out is 'fun' to do...

Talk about anything under the sun or stars - but keep it civil. This is where we really get to know each other. Everyone is welcome, and invited!
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Postby Satya » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:43 pm

No no, a TOTAL of 70 for your weight (supplemental + nutritional), so whatever you eat plus the supplemental.

For example, I work out in the morning. A half hour before I go I take a serving of creatine, a serving of glutamine, a half a scoop of protein powder (15 grams) and a scoop of N.O. Postworkout I take 2.5 scoops of protein, about 70 grams, plus another creatine/glutamine serving. My postworkout meal at work is usually either a serving of turkey or chicken, adding another 10 grams. Then in the afternoon I'll have a snack that has protein (beef jerky for example) for another 10. So before noon I've worked out and taken in 2 servings of creatine, 2 of glutamine, N.O., and about 100 grams of protein (give or take.) Then maybe a nice frosty glass of chocolate milk for another 8. When I said half a gram per pound of bodyweight, that's the minimum. If you can get somewhere to 75% (if you're really lifting seriously) so much the better.

As the for the sleep thing, that's partially true. Your body rebuilds and repairs at night as well but the post-workout window is crucial. Some people take casein protein (a slower digesting form of protein) before bed, so the body has a steady source of protein overnight in addition to whey post-workout.

As for whatever Wil's talking about with free glutamate, he's right that the problem is the heavy flavoring. But honestly, I don't care what it tastes like. Mine tastes horrible, because the only flavoring is vanilla bean extract. It doesn't cover the taste of the whey, but why the hell would I care? I don't drink it for the taste, I drink it for the nutritional value. As for the expense, it's usually the brand name you buy - if you go to GNC, expect to pay more than you should (unless you're a gold card member there and it's the first week of the month when they have their special.) Even still, the web is the better option. I found the exact same product one time for 24.99 online and 44.99 at the gym.

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Postby Peterlover14 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:20 pm

So, I've gained like 5 pounds making me a total of 125 pounds.(Not good)

Today I'm proud to say I got on the Wii fit for the first time since last year summer. I worked out a full 30 minutes and my arms and abs hurt from the 60 second plank excercise I just did.

It's good to be back. :)
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Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:28 pm

making me a total of 125 pounds.(Not good)
Why not?
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Postby Peterlover14 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:38 pm

Well, last year I went from 150 to 130, and during the summer(somehow) I lost 10 more. I wanted to be at 115, but I just stopped working out. So recently I started eating badly too, gaining me 5 pounds I don't want.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:41 pm

How tall are you, if you don't mind me asking?
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Postby Peterlover14 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:42 pm

5'5 last time I checked. My BMI is fine, I just want to be smaller...
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Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:54 pm

And you want to be smaller why?
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Postby Peterlover14 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:56 pm

Because...I might look better?
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Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:02 pm

Look, I know I'm a fine one to talk. Half the things out of my "mouth" on this board are about my appearance - "I'm a cow" "I'm ugly" blah blah blah- and I'm constantly bemoaning how I'd have better luck getting the attention of men or I'd have a happier life if I were thinner/prettier but the truth is, at 5'2" and 139lbs (shorter and heavier than you), I look good. I more than likely have a different body type than you but I can't imagine you looking poorly as you are and can imagine you taking the weight loss too far; women are supposed to be curvy and soft, not spaghetti thin (unless that's how they naturally are, I suppose but real curves, as opposed to bone curves, are very sexy, methinks). I say all this coming from an all time high weight a good deal higher than your 150.
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Postby Peterlover14 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:06 pm

I understand. I don't want to be pencil thin, I just want to look better in clothes. And by the way, I've seen pics of you, and I think you're really pretty.
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Postby Gravity Defier » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:11 pm

What I'm trying to get at here is, I bet you're the only one who doesn't think you look just fine in the clothes you're wearing. It's okay to want to be healthy and to watch your weight but be careful with it, please.
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Postby Peterlover14 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:14 pm

I promise GD. :)
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Postby CezeN » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:10 pm

Here's a question, is there really, scientifically shown to be any benifit from working out if there isn't a decent amount of protein to be had aftewards, in concern with muscle growth?

For example, my parents still haven't boughten a new gallon of milk, and I knew that before I worked out today. Sure, I'll get some protein from my food, but,
was there really any point?
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Postby jotabe » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:25 pm

women are supposed to be curvy and soft, not spaghetti thin (unless that's how they naturally are, I suppose but real curves, as opposed to bone curves, are very sexy, methinks).
This.

For goodness sake, girls in the world, listen to wise Alea 8)
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Postby Satya » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:35 pm

The body repairs/replenishes itself with what it has available. What you put in = what you get out.

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Postby locke » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:10 am

powdered protein is sort of a half-scam. the idea is that its protein that gets absorbed faster and leads to more rapid muscle recovery, as you probably know, you can do just as well with milk. Actually a lot of body builders use milk with protein powder which makes for a very calorie heavy drink. People trying to 'cut' use protein powder with water.

But yeah, you got the benefit because you eventually recovered. The people who worry about timing their post workout meals and shakes are the people in body building competitions, the differences are mostly so miniscule--more to do with water retention than anything else on the short term--most people wouldn't recognize a difference and those who do say they see a difference are probably trying to see a difference rather than objectively seeing a difference.

In other words, you got what you needed from your food.

It's worth remembering that while the protein and supplement manufacturers want you consuming 25-100 grams of their protein powder a day the body is physically limited to metabolizing a very small amount of protein into new muscle tissue. I think it's about a maximum of 10 grams, but I'm not certain--and for those keeping track that would mean in a best case scenario it would take you about 45 days to add a pound of actual muscle. iirc protein is metabolized in terms of helping muscles recover, stiffening and strengthening and increasing the density of of existing muscle fiber, but actually creating new muscle fiber is pretty tough to do, again, iirc.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Satya » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:33 am

Wrong.

First, even the most conservative estimates approximate about 65 grams of protein a day for a 160 pound person. Most people don't get that much protein in two days, let alone every day. About 20-25 percent of your daily caloric intake should be from protein. That's the lowest estimate I found - the one from ask.com's sport's nutrition section indicated about 100 grams of protein for a 140 pound person engaging in consistent physical activity.

As for milk, I only ever drink skim (and don't really know why anyone would do anything else.) I'm not sure what you mean by a lot of bodybuilders use milk for the protein powders - are you a bodybuilder? Know a lot of them? 'Cause I do, and after hitting the gym 5 days a week for the past 2 years, I've never seen anyone use milk for their protein powder. It's always water. Meat of course is still your best bet, as it's the most "complete" form of protein, having more of the essential amino acids that's other protein sources lack - except of course for powders which have all them, and more. And because the body doesn't store amino acids the way it does with other nutrients, it needs a daily intake.

As for water retention, I'm not even sure what you're talking about. It has nothing to do with protein. You drink a lot of water when you work out a lot. It's that simple.

The difference for me is qualitative as well as quantitative. When I first started working out 2-2.5 years ago, I was up around 270 pounds (5'11"). After losing 100 pounds, all the weight I wanted to lose, I wanted to gain muscle. Started taking protein and creatine and put on about 10 pounds of muscle. At 180-185 (depending on the day of the week) it's no question; protein doesn't do the work for you, but it makes your efforts more worthwhile.

You still have to be smart about it; get a low-carb, low-fat whey isolate protein powder, take a half a serving pre-workout and a serving or two post-workout, and if you can, take a serving of casein before bed. In between, eating several small meals of high-quality complete proteins - lean meats like turkey and chicken, beans, yogurt, peanut butter, etc.

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Postby locke » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:45 pm

in terms of protein metabolized as new muscle fiber, your body cannot convert 65 grams of protein into new muscle. That protein is broken down, digested, converted to energy and used in a variety of ways, but only a small portion of it actually becomes muscle.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Satya » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:58 am

source plz.

and why then does every health, fitness, nutrition and sports training authority say that 65 is a bare minimum for a person who does a bare minimum of activity? why take more if you can't use it for new muscle? your statement belies what every athlete, personal trainer, bodybuilder and gym rat has known and experienced for the last 50 years.

and to get back to the original point, to get to 65 (again, a very conservative, bare minimum estimate) you'd have to down over 8 glasses of a milk a day. You go through a gallon every two days? Or, only slightly less insane, a glass of milk with every meal, plus at snack, plus a serving of protein from another source at every meal plus a snack. Do people do that? No, 90 percent don't. Sure, you can get a good 20 g from a nice big steak, but you'll also get a heap of calories and fat. Let me put it this way. You should shoot for 75 (just a bit past the minimum.) And to do so in a combination of nutrition, milk and supplementation. If you drink 3 glasses of a milk a day (a reasonable goal for around 25 g, 1/3 of your need), take a scoop of protein post-workout (another 25 g and a 1/3rd), and get the other 25 nutritionally (the final 1/3) you're doing well.

I've never seen anyone who knows jack-all about working out, nutrition, medicine or sports say anything similar to what you're spewing.

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Postby CezeN » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:12 pm

So, on Spring Break now, with no access to a gym.

According to Wil, the Bodylastics are trash.
So, are they worth using for this week?

This is directed any of you that I've been listening to for the past page in this thread.
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Postby Wil » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:04 pm

If that is all you have, then that is what you should use. I think it would be better to use even less-than-ideal equipment than to use no equipment at all.

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Postby Satya » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:24 am

I concur. Resistance bands are indeed better than nothing; for that matter, you can still get a decent bodyweight workout if done right, so adding resistance to that is even better.

Resistance Band Squats
1. Start by stepping on the resistance band with both feet shoulder width apart.
2. Hold the resistance band at shoulder level with both hands. Start into a full squat while holding the band at shoulder height.
3. Return to the starting position and repeat.
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Resistance Band Bent Over Rows
1. Start by placing the band under one foot and stepping backwards with the other foot.
2. Bend over keeping your back flat and stop at a 45 degree angle.
3. Pull the bands up towards your waist keeping your elbows in close together.
4. Squeeze your shoulder blades together when performing rowing motion.
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Alternate Lying Chest Presses
1. Lie on your back and place the resistance band under your back and hold the ends with both hands.
2. Start by pressing one arm up towards the ceiling and then return to the starting position. Repeat with the other arm.
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Diagonal Woodchops
Starting Position: Loop the band under your left foot and grasp either end. Keep hands together and extend arms down towards left foot.
1. Bring band up and away in a wood chopping motion.
2. During this motion your feet stay stationary and you rotate at your trunk. Repeat this motion for the desired repetitions and then repeat in the opposite direction.
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Triceps Extension with Resistance Band
1. Start by holding the tubing in one hand and placing that hand behind your back.
2. Now grab the other end of the band with the arm that is over your head.
3. Extend the top elbow until your arm is fully extended.
4. Return to the starting position and repeat for the prescribed repetitions.
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Resistance Band Lunges
1. Stand with feet hip width apart. Take left leg and step back approximately 2 feet standing on the ball of the foot. Place resistance band under front foot and hold the other end with your hands. 2. Start position: Feet should be positioned at a staggered stance with head and back erect and straight in a neutral position.
3. Lower body by bending at right hip and knee until thigh is parallel to floor. Body should follow a straight line down towards the floor.
4. Return to start position.
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Lateral Rows with Resistance Band
1. Step onto resistance band with feet hip width apart and knees slightly bent.
2. Start position: Grasp ends with a neutral grip (palms facing each other). Arms should hang down to sides with elbows slightly bent.
3. Raise band to side of body at shoulder height keeping elbows only slightly bent.
4. Return to start position.
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Biceps Curls with Resistance Band
1. Stand with feet shoulder width apart, knees slightly bent, and at a staggered stance.
2. Step onto middle of tubing with back foot or both feet.
3. Start position: Grasp ends with underhand grip (palms facing forward) with arms hanging down at sides. Elbows should be close to sides.
4. Flex at the elbows and curl band up to approximately shoulder level. Keep elbows close to sides throughout movement. 5. Return to start position.
6. Remember to keep back and head straight in a neutral position throughout movement. Shoulders should be stabilized by squeezing shoulder blades together slightly - only the elbow joint should be moving.
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Postby Wil » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:13 pm

Wouldn't you know it, it seems HFCS is actually bad for you. Surprise, surprise. Unfortunately, it seems the actual study wasn't as conclusive as the Slashdot article would claim. Still, the fact that HFCS is in everything and is used for everything (sweetener, stabilizer, preservative) and that you would be hard pressed to find something with it NOT in it, you can't exactly control how much you eat.

also...

OH s***, SOMEONE CALL WILL SMITH.

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Postby locke » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:40 am

12 consecutive days in the gym. :) though time constraints have force me to do HIIT sessions yesterday and tonight so I will have to do my weights sessions on the weekends instead.

I really must get in gear and go twice a day. HIIT in the morning, Weights in the evening. unfortunatley I can't seem to make myself fall asleep before 3am, a bad habit I need to break.


I looked for the info on metabolizing protein into new muscle fiber but what I found wasn't what I remembered as it lacked sources for its assertions. Offline, Mark Rippetoe's books delve in detail into the different kinds of muscle growth that occur with different programs of strength training and I believe he addresses protein synthesis there but it's been a year since I read those books. but again. building new muscle fiber is different from other muscle growth that occurs that protein can be used for. As I'm sure you know, 1.6grams of protein (Dr. Peter Lemon was the name I saw referenced to this research) per kilogram of body weight, for adult men working at elite athletic levels, converted to pounds that's about .73 grams/pound of body weight. The supplement industry wants everyone to consume protein like they're an elite athlete. 65 grams would be enough for an 89 lb elite athlete, so yeah, that sounds low , which means its a number for a more average person, probably .5g/lb or 65 grams is the bare minimum for an average 130 lb adult.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Wil » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:55 pm

Over the weekend I purchased a 300lb olympic barbell set and constructed a squat and bench press rack. Cool beans. I decided to start doing Starting Strength. Did the first session today and it was very easy, but that's mostly because I reduced the weight for all my major lifts due to adding the barbell. I'll give it a few weeks and see if it gets more difficult. If not, I might just construct my own program.

Since Starting Strength has me squatting three times a week, I'm going to be lifting in the late morning, and then in the late evening I'm going to be doing a short jog. Did so tonight, and while this SOUNDS terrible, I managed to pull off a 10.28 minute mile... which is very decent considering how very little I've put in toward low-intensity running.

I MIGHT start swimming on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays... we'll see.

Also: Finally dropped below 200 on the scale! 197 as of earlier this week. Woot!

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Postby CezeN » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:33 pm

Currently, after my work outs, for protein I've been eating 6-8 spoons of peanut butter, while simultaneously sipping 2 glasses of milk, over about an hour to hour and 15 minutes timespan.

Since I'm able to bench 140 more times than I did before, I am definitely getting stronger.

I also added in lunges, about 20-22, between bench presses/incline presses while I let my muscles rest.

Last, when I feel up to it, after getting home I workout my shoulders, biceps, triceps, backs, abs, and shoulder muscles with my bodylastics for about an hour.
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Postby Satya » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:58 pm

Since I've been doing boxing drills lately as an augment to my cardio (in preparation for a possible first MMA fight in the summer) I've had a strange trade-off - my back and shoulder workouts have been super; pulling off several sets of a dozen or more pullups at a pop while getting more weight on shoulder presses, and even after seated rows, upright rows, delt flyes, front raises and lat pulldowns, I still have juice for commando pullups (my new favorite, check the instructional vid here). BUT, my bicep and forearm workouts seem to have suffered, Tri's seem relatively unaffected, but perhaps the constant impact has a deleterious effect on those muscle group's lifting capacity.
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Postby locke » Fri May 07, 2010 2:17 pm

Starting a circuit cycle at the gym, yesterday was the baseline, just one circuit. Tonight or sunday will be the second day, and I'll do two circuits, then Monday or Tuesday I'll do three circuits and that'll be my regular workout (alternating with a similar circuit to this one) for the next four weeks. it's a nice mix up from lifting for strength and power.

10-12 reps, 6-9 seconds between sets (reality is more as you move from station to station, but the idea is to move on without rest)

Curls
Dips
Bench
Deadlifts
Press
Pullups
Crunches
Oblique Crunches
Plank
Back Extensions
Captains Chair Crunches
wall-stability ball lunges
Squats
plie squats
calf raises
static squat.

and that took me a pathetic 25:22

The plank and static squat were torture.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby CezeN » Sat May 08, 2010 11:59 am

Is it concievable, that after not working out in two weeks, I can lose 15 pounds and be around 120, and most of the loss is muscle?

Sure, I haven't been eating as much, due to being sick and having effed up tastebuds. But, I should have been eating enough to fall down to at least hovering around 128.

Losing weight, muscle or fight, is an inconvenience to me.
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Postby locke » Sun May 09, 2010 9:17 pm

two circuits today. the first one was 22 minutes and change, the second one was 27 minutes and change. good god the second circuit was brutal. I'm going to do Three? oy. Never realized lifting weights could be as intense as HIIT.

did my 12 pullups in sets of 7, 4 and 1, both times. hoping to get it down to two sets to complete 12 pullups next time. :D on a sadder note I failed on the 10th dip on the second circuit, which was annoying, it was also really hard to get my brain to force my body to do a complete dip on the second circuit, as my more tired body really wanted to do half hearted dips. :-p
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Peterlover14 » Mon May 10, 2010 9:41 am

Okay so we signed up for two memberships at L. A. Fitness. One for my mom and one for my dad. Hopefully I'll get back into shape.
"I'm drowning in FOOTWEAR!"

-Spike, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Season 7

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Postby locke » Wed May 12, 2010 2:29 am

Did three circuits today. Three circuits is a lot.

1. 24:56
2. 24:30 (though I realized I forgot to do the plie squats)
3. 28.58

on a brighter note, the demon Beelzebub exercise of torture known as the static squat improved today. I managed thirty seconds on my first circuit until I had to stand up; gritted my teeth and got to 45ish seconds on my second circuit and nearly fell on my ass; then sucked it up and hammered out one minute of unadulterated pain (though I think my counting went faster too, lol) and actually did collapse at the end, as I was unable to stand. but I got to one minute on the static squat, one goal met, booyah.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby locke » Sat May 15, 2010 2:31 am

did 1.3 circuits today before the gym closed 25:09

circuits when severely depressed are harder.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby locke » Fri May 21, 2010 1:07 am

2 circuits today, lazy me not doing the third, but I was tired, didn't want to be up super late and uhh am gonna blame it on the sore throat I had yesterday and drippy nose I had today. Bench presses with sinus issues are much harder.
So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

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Postby Haven » Fri May 21, 2010 12:10 pm

So im a figure skater and im used to skating 3-4 days a week for about 3 hours a day... needless to say, i generaly stay in pretty good shape regardless of what i eat. Sadly, they took the ice out for matanance for the next month. i havent skated or worked out at all for the last 2-3 weeks and ive gained 10 lbs. im at my all time fat right now lol even though its really not that bad... i feel awful. and i really wanted to get in shape this summer so that my coach can work with me on pairs stuff...

sooo... this girl at work told me she does belly dancing, and that i should try it and take a class. she said she would retake the begining class with me how cool is that?! lol if anything is going to motivate me to start working out and get in shape its going to be dancing in front of random strangers showing off my belly... lol

im going running after work. yay!
Find out who you are... And do it on purpose.


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