Cause Workin' Out is 'fun' to do...

[powerfulcheese04]

Catherine beat me to it.

There aren't very many "essential" (meaning your body can't synthesize them) vitamins/nutrients (relatively, anyway. The list is kind of long, but relative to the compounds your body makes itself, they've got nothing... especially if you just want to talk about organic compounds and you cut the metals and such out of the picture.)

[Ela]

Meat. Please, for the love of all that is holy, eat it. Beans (and whole grains? Really? Hmm) are very, very poor substitutes for meat proteins. You're probably really lacking in the Carnitine which helps with muscle growth and the breaking down of fatty acids.

No, thank you.

And I will venture to guess that I know more about nutrition than you do (unless you have a college education in nutrition, in which case I take it back).

[Wil]

I'm still trying to understand where the will to not eat meat comes from. Some people don't like it, which is fine. Others hate the idea of animals being killed, which I PERSONALLY think is silly, but that's alright also. It does not, however, make sense to say that the lack of eating something available to us makes us healthier. It would make sense, to me, that to be healthy you need everything -- meats, vegetables, fruits, nuts (and some would argue grains and milk) as we can eat, process, and take advantage of everything there.

I'm still waiting for an unbiased study that looks at Vegetarians and Meat-Eaters whom both have strict, precisely controlled diets. As far as I am aware the only studies currently out don't do that well of a job giving the meat-eating side of the equation healthy portions of meals that don't include fast food whom also workout.
It's always bugged me how one of the core arguments against eating meat, from a vegetarian point of view, is that "Vegetarians are healthier than meat eaters". That's a bold statement when your group of meat eaters are BigMac shovin', 9oz T-Bone Steak, baked potato with sour creme, a small vegetable, and a diet coke eating comparison group.

Not that you are a vegetarian, you said you eat meat sometimes, I just went out on a ledge and assumed you hold some of these ideas. <I> eat meat, regularly, with most of my meals a day. I've never had a problem with plateauing in weight loss, I have no problem gaining muscle, I quickly and easily gain endurance and stamina with my workouts, I rarely get sick, I'm not hypoglycemic, I'm not a diabetic, I don't have high blood pressure, my LDL is low and my HDL is high... it would seem to me that I'm in fine health. I just don't see the reason for avoiding the meat.


Edit: You very well might know more about nutrition than me, overall. I'm not very well versed in everything that is there to understand about it. I don't claim to be either. I'm just going on personal experience and what I have read. Not a doctor, not trying to be. I just... don't understand many of these diets people take part in and then they wonder why it doesn't work. I've never had trouble, I don't monitor my calories, and I still eat the cake, cookies, and ice cream. >.>

[locke]

strawman, Wil.

most studies in nutrition are biased because you simply can't control diets that well, not in any statistically significant large sample. So that means that you have to correct for multi-variable factors and interpret the data, dietary studies are more like polling where you control what data is collected and then interpret it--which means selection and confirmation bias heavily influence the outcome.

It's my experience that people will eat about as much meat as they want to, and it usually corresponds with what's good for their individual metabolism. personally I can eat less meat, but it makes me irritable, depressed and sleepy when I do (presuming I'm eating about the same amount of calories if not a greater volume of food which I probably am if not eating meat). I'll also gain weight proportional to the amount my carbs increase, even if the amount of calories stays constant. Lovely to have a metabolism that does that. my first girlfriend, on the otherhand, rarely ate meat simply because she didn't want to eat it most of the time. in fact if she didn't eat lots of carbs she would gain weight. Personally I think gaining, maintaining or losing weight is more of an individually specific chemical balance than a universally 'correct' dietary principal of quantity or types of calories consumed.

[Ela]

I'm still trying to understand where the will to not eat meat comes from.

I am trying to understand why the idea that I don't eat meat that much seems to bother you.

[Analytic Mind]

I haven't actually read all the posts (because i am feeling lazy today), but working out with a partner for one makes exercising more interesting for me. It is fun to have someone who is close in strength to you to test your limits with. Also I have found weight training more enjoyable when the results are noticeable, so don't just give up after 2 or three weeks because you haven't noticed results (it takes longer than that).

Finally does anyone get the munchies after working out really hard and for those who do what foods (or bars) have you found to be healthy, as well as filling.

P.S. Try doing 5 pull ups, 10 pushups, and 15 squats in 20 minutes as many times as possible while keeping good form (you can resort to jumping pull ups and kneeling pushups if need be). ITS INTENSE!

[Luet]

Because he thinks that is the reason your weight loss has plateaued; and he seems to think that because he doesn't realize that people are not all the same but have vastly different makeups, metabolisms, etc. One diet/regime does not work for everybody or even the majority.

I like meat but definitely don't eat it at every meal (maybe 4-5 times a week) and usually fish or chicken. And I am barely on the lower end of healthy weight for my height. For years, I was told "Oh, it must be nice to eat whatever you want and not gain weight...you're lucky to have such a fast metabolism." It wasn't until recently when I occasionally tracked my calories that I realized that my size isn't due to a super-fast metabolism but because I only take in around 1200-1400 calories a day. BUT I have also realized that I naturally don't do many things that overweight people do as far as emotional eating and eating when not hungry and stuff.

[Wil]

I'm still trying to understand where the will to not eat meat comes from.

I am trying to understand why the idea that I don't eat meat that much seems to bother you.

My last post was much more a.. thinking out loud general rant than something against Ela. It doesn't bother me at all. It's just a habit of mine to find out why people do or don't do the things do.

Because he thinks that is the reason your weight loss has plateaued; and he seems to think that because he doesn't realize that people are not all the same but have vastly different makeups, metabolisms, etc. One diet/regime does not work for everybody or even the majority.

The way it was explained to me is this: Your body stops giving up the fat stores as willingly if you're doing something wrong. If your body feels like it isn't getting enough of something it'll try and hold on to what it has for as long as it can. If this is wrong, then hmmph at me.

What's the harm in trying? Nothing, really. Besides, the body benefits most by variety. Eating the same foods, the same calories, the same time every day isn't ideal. Just as with exercise your body works hardest and progresses most when it has to continuously adapt. Maybe throwing in a few more meat meals a week would help! What's the harm in trying?

Weight is a TERRIBLE thing to use to judge progress as it's subject to way too many variables. If you feel better, if you look better, good. If you wish, measure your waste. Water, muscle, food, waste, etc all really makes it tough to use a scale as a measure of progress. Even scales with a body fat percentage measurement device is terrible as they are subject too far too many variables also.

[Derwyddon]

Wil – you don't have to eat meat. You only have to make sure you're getting complete protein and know what foods to combine to get them. Trying to push people to eat meat only makes you look like an ignorant jerk. Also, whoever tried to sell you Carnitine did a good job on selling you on something you don't need.

Analytic Mind – Everyone gets the munchies after a hard workout. It's your body's way of saying IM HUNGRY, REPLENISH ME!

Luet – you don't eat enough. (you actually might be surprised at what a slight increase of healthy calories will make you feel like)



ELA - You're not eating enough. You're also not getting enough complete protein. Have you been a vegetarian long? Do you know much about combining food for complete protiens (proteins that contain all the essential ammino acids?) If you don't, you really should look into it, it's vital for your health and your fat loss.

I don't know about sparkpeople, but I know about people, and even people in a coma get more calories then you are bringing in some days.

What does your weight training routine look like? Remember, high reps for toning is simply a myth and will get you nowhere but having great muscle endurance.

[Analytic Mind]

Analytic Mind – Everyone gets the munchies after a hard workout. It's your body's way of saying IM HUNGRY, REPLENISH ME!

Do you know any health bars/or good filling snacks>? I have been eating badly and alot, so i want to cut down on the eating badly since i can't stop eating....

[Luet]

Luet – you don't eat enough. (you actually might be surprised at what a slight increase of healthy calories will make you feel like)

But you don't even know how big/small I am? Anyway, I am currently 5'4" and 110lbs and 31yo. In HS and for a few years after I was 100lbs and ate as much as I wanted always. I slowly gained wait after marrying at 21 and plateaued around 130 and stayed there until the age of 28. Then I went through a traumatic experience that made me lose my appetite for a long period and I dropped back to 100 over the course of a year. I've now gotten back to normal as far as eating but only gained back 10 of it. I've now weighed 110 for about a year and it seems like my body is happy this way.

I must also add that I do NO exercise whatsoever other than incidental walking and I never have. I know that I really should for general health reasons but I just hate exercise! I hate sweating (it makes me itch - I have a major histamine reaction problem) and so...yeah, I just don't exercise. Which might account for my ability to make do with a lower caloric intake? Dunno.

[Eaquae Legit]

Wil – you don't have to eat meat. You only have to make sure you're getting complete protein and know what foods to combine to get them. Trying to push people to eat meat only makes you look like an ignorant jerk. Also, whoever tried to sell you Carnitine did a good job on selling you on something you don't need.

Amen. Recent vegetarian here. My diet is more varied and creative now than it was when I ate meat. I eat wholegrain bread, and switch up my protein sources to make sure my bases are covered: dairy, whole grains, tofu, soya tvp, seitan, and a wide variety of pulses. I feel no need to eat meat, and I really don't miss it.

My diet is healthier than the average carnivore, since I get a lot more fibre, eat more whole foods, a wider variety, and I avoid the chemical crap you get in most non-organic meats. No growth hormones, no antibiotics, no bio-accumulated toxins, except in the relatively small amount of dairy I get. Eating lower on the food chain has made me feel healthier, fuller longer, more energised, more mentally positive. Maybe it's not for everyone but I do not regret my choice, and I would rather resent the implication that I'm less healthy.

I dare say that I'm an educated vegetarian. I've been slowly accumulating nutrition knowledge for years now and I've got a pretty good idea how to take care of myself. Since you are ignorant of the fact that wholemeal is a pretty good source of protein, I'm going out on a limb and saying you need to do some more research before you criticise others' diets.

And if you're taking herbal supplements or diet pills or protein powders... you're probably getting fleeced. That stuff is the modern version of snake oil, and people who shell out for it are gullible.

[locke]

I must also add that I do NO exercise whatsoever other than incidental walking and I never have. I know that I really should for general health reasons but I just hate exercise! I hate sweating (it makes me itch - I have a major histamine reaction problem) and so...yeah, I just don't exercise. Which might account for my ability to make do with a lower caloric intake? Dunno.

Exercise isn't for everyone, but with many people today it's needed. some don't, you probably don't, especially if your weight is stable and you're happy with it. Exercise was actually considered something of a fringe health-nut thing up until about thirty-forty years ago. Physicians never prescribed it in treating obesity (or for general health) because exercise stimulates appetite which would only encourage the worst tendancies of overeaters. By and large they were just as successful, if not more so, at treating obesity as physicians are today who universally prescribe exercise.

[Wil]

I suppose I'm just crazy in the idea that you're missing out on SOMETHING by not eat it. Just because you can get the majority of your vitamins and minerals from pills and other sources of food doesn't mean one should stop eating vegetables now does it?

Recent vegetarian here. My diet is more varied and creative now than it was when I ate meat. I eat wholegrain bread, and switch up my protein sources to make sure my bases are covered: dairy, whole grains, tofu, soya tvp, seitan, and a wide variety of pulses. I feel no need to eat meat, and I really don't miss it.

Becoming a vegetarian didn't make your diet better, deciding to make your diet better and more varied made your died better. With or without meat you can do that.

My diet is healthier than the average carnivore, since I get a lot more fibre, eat more whole foods, a wider variety, and I avoid the chemical crap you get in most non-organic meats. No growth hormones, no antibiotics, no bio-accumulated toxins, except in the relatively small amount of dairy I get.

Organic foods for the win?

Eating lower on the food chain has made me feel healthier, fuller longer, more energised, more mentally positive. Maybe it's not for everyone but I do not regret my choice, and I would rather resent the implication that I'm less healthy.

Probably because you were an "average carnivore" before, and you started eating healthier now? Again, not eating meat didn't do that to you. The diet mindset and eating lower GI foods did that to you.

Since you are ignorant of the fact that wholemeal is a pretty good source of protein, I'm going out on a limb and saying you need to do some more research before you criticise others' diets.

I've just never heard of people using "wholemeal" as a primary source of protein. Especially considering the protein to carb ratio is pretty horrible.

And if you're taking herbal supplements or diet pills or protein powders... you're probably getting fleeced. That stuff is the modern version of snake oil, and people who shell out for it are gullible.

I never said I was. I remembered reading about Carnitine from somewhere and how the primary source is from meat. Looked it up and read about how beef has a ton more Carnitine in it than anything else. Makes me wonder what else is missing.

My entire argument is that you can't just play off not eating a significant food group by getting "protein" from other places. Should I not eat vegetables because I can get "carbs" from dairy? There are vegetarians but why not meatarians? I'm just constantly seeing people play off this whole "becoming a vegetarian made me healthier!" act when it's not that not eating meat made you healthier, it's eating healthier that made you healthier. You can't really play up what science says right now because what science says changes so much. Remember when all cholesterol was bad and eating fat made you fat?

Besides, one of the primary reasons for people being so unhealthy now is all the crap they put in food these days. Artificial sugars, preservatives, and all the other things Eaquae Legit spoke of above.

I DO NOT CARE if you do not eat meat. That's your choice. I'm just trying to understand here. I'm just trying to get better reasons. I'm just trying to get people to stop thinking that being a vegetarian means you'll be healthier. EATING HEALTHY = HEALTHY. VEGETARIAN is not > or < OMNIVORE. After all, that IS what we are; Omnivores. We can eat both, you know. We have for YEARS. I hear it's more than 100.

Edit: My friend said something I thought of that was funny. Vegans are like mac owners. It's a LIFESTYLE. Many mac owners are pompus pricks about owning a mac. People who eat meat are the Windows group. Most of the users are ignorant as hell and have the spy/adware/viruses out the yinyang. There are those, however, who can use a Windows machine like a pro. Oh, and they get to play games. The games are the meat.

[powerfulcheese04]

Besides, one of the primary reasons for people being so unhealthy now is all the crap they put in food these days. Artificial sugars, preservatives, and all the other things Eaquae Legit spoke of above.

I, as a scientist, get really sick of this claim. Yes, we have more "artificial" things in our food than people used to. Also, our average life expectancy is increasing substantially through science. (Of course, the majority of this is understanding of medicine. But also food processing. Pasteurization is "artificial." The antibiotics, etc in meat help prevent us from getting things like trichynosis from pork. )

But still...

Better living through Chemistry!

[Wil]

Besides, one of the primary reasons for people being so unhealthy now is all the crap they put in food these days. Artificial sugars, preservatives, and all the other things Eaquae Legit spoke of above.

I, as a scientist, get really sick of this claim. Yes, we have more "artificial" things in our food than people used to. Also, our average life expectancy is increasing substantially through science. (Of course, the majority of this is understanding of medicine. But also food processing. Pasteurization is "artificial." The antibiotics, etc in meat help prevent us from getting things like trichynosis from pork. )

But still...

Better living through Chemistry!

Plenty of studies and what not showing how horrible it is. I, for one, know that when I use artificial sugar it causes me to get horrible stomach cramps that last all day. Not even that old Aspartame but the newer sucralose -- what they use in Splenda. Plenty of websites that talk about artificial sugars. Many are very preachy... kind of like some vegan sites... but many are fairly scientific in nature. Problems ranging from stomach cramps to migraines to pain-behind-the-eyes (this is also common, I used to get it when I drank soda also) to numbness in the extremities. I always get a kick out of when people with diabetes drink diet soda because there are studies that show it actually increases insulin resistance.

Besides, it hasn't been until recently that we've had such an obesity problem. There have been restaurants for more than half a century however the majority of crap they put in food now is relatively new. Everyone knows the horrible things that have been going around with MSG, but what many don't know is that instead of using MSG they simply use a different product that is created through the same process as MSG and give it a new name. No MSG? Okay, we'll use BHT.

Best example I've seen used is this: In Europe they still use real sugar in their soda. Here they use High Fructose Corn Syrup. Why? Because the US taxes sugar imports. Point being, however, is that when someone in Europe grabs a soda, they drink it, and then they do not need another one. Sugar and Caffeine are natural appetite suppressors. However, HFCS actually blocks your brains ability to gauge fullness. So, instead of being content with one, you need another. Or you need a bag of chips to wash the soda down.

Probably why Europe's computer nerds weight averages much lower than one from the US.

[Ela]

ELA - You're not eating enough. You're also not getting enough complete protein. Have you been a vegetarian long? Do you know much about combining food for complete protiens (proteins that contain all the essential ammino acids?) If you don't, you really should look into it, it's vital for your health and your fat loss.

What are you basing your statements on? How do you know that I am not eating enough?

I am going to echo what Luet said: You don't know how tall I am and how much I weigh.

You are also not paying close attention. I am not a vegetarian, and I never said I was. What I said was that I eat a lot of vegetarian food.

How do you know I am not getting enough protein? I told you what types of foods I get, but not in what quantities. I know a great deal about protein complementarity and have for known about it for 30 years. I also have an excellent background in nutritional studies.

In my workout I am depending on increasing the weights as my strength increases, not increasing reps.

I don't really think my plateau is that big a deal, as it hasn't been going on for that long, and I feel sure I will be able to start losing again.

But thanks for your input.

[Ela]

I'm still trying to understand where the will to not eat meat comes from.

I am trying to understand why the idea that I don't eat meat that much seems to bother you.

My last post was much more a.. thinking out loud general rant than something against Ela. It doesn't bother me at all. It's just a habit of mine to find out why people do or don't do the things do.

Okey doke.

Weight is a TERRIBLE thing to use to judge progress as it's subject to way too many variables.

I agree. It's not the only parameter I am using. And I have lost some inches.

I suppose I'm just crazy in the idea that you're missing out on SOMETHING by not eat it.

Not everyone feels they are missing out on something by not eating meat.

Becoming a vegetarian didn't make your diet better, deciding to make your diet better and more varied made your died better. With or without meat you can do that.

That's true. But based on my reading, I have learned that a diet that contains less meat and cheese, and more fruits, vegetables, legumes and whole grains is a healthier diet, overall.

[locke]

Oh god reading Wil's posts is like looking back in a mirror at myself three-four years ago...

Everyone knows the horrible things that have been going around with MSG, but what many don't know is that instead of using MSG they simply use a different product that is created through the same process as MSG and give it a new name. No MSG? Okay, we'll use BHT.

Wrong, MSG is a flavoring, BHT is a preservative. One is a glutamate, one is an antioxidant, big difference.

most chemicals are developed through similar rigorous scientific methodologies and processes, but there is a very dangerous meme (that's quite contagious) that goes "all chemicals bad" and eventually develops into "all chemicals bad all the time" and it can get worse.

There are vegetarians but why not meatarians?

Inuit? in all seriousness, I think it's because there's not much variety in an all meat diet, unless you're eating offal as well which would give you a lot more flavors and textures (I LOVE liver, but haven't tried any other organs)

[Wil]

Wrong BHT is a preservative. One is a glutamate, one is an antioxidant, big difference.

most chemicals are developed through similar rigorous scientific methodologies and processes, but there is a very dangerous meme (that's quite contagious) that goes "all chemicals bad" and eventually develops into "all chemicals bad all the time" and it can get worse.

Hmm, I'll submit to that. However, they do do the renaming MSG by changing the core component. Just as bad, however.

There are vegetarians but why not meatarians?

Inuit?

Hahah. You may very well have a point there. However, please don't use the ONLY EAT MEAT = THEY ARE FAT thing. They're fat probably because they generally live in cold-as-frozen-hell places. Probably evolutionary.

I would agree, however, that just eating meat is dumb. I'm much more.. eat everything in good portions. Need it all. LOVE it all.

[locke]

btw i edited out the excitotoxin=msg from my post because that was a meme that cropped up from my healthnut days, and I'm not really sure if its ever been proven that msg is an excitotoxin or not.

[powerfulcheese04]

Oh, Wil. I've done extensive work, both research and class based in the kind of things you're talking about.

And yes, some chemicals cause weird reactions in some people. But, so do natural products. Also, I'm not attacking not liking specific chemicals but the general idea that all of them are bad all the time. They aren't all bad.

(Although, I'll grant that MSG and I aren't friends. It makes me pass out, actually... but that's more my fault than MSG's fault.)

Treating our meat animals improves the quality of the meat, or at least decreases some of the potential dangers associated with eating them. I'm not saying people should just be eating all the crazy, hyper-processed food that exists. But, also that people being all "we should eat like they used to back in the good 'ol days" are nuts because back in the "good 'ol days" life expectancy was shorter than it is now.

[Wil]

Back in the good ole days we didn't have modern medicine. Don't get me wrong.. I praise the work chemical engineers do. Really, really amazing stuff. Problem is, really, that when it comes to medicine we do a lot more extensive human trials than we do with the additives we place within our foods. In small amounts I'm sure most additives are safe.

Nothing is good in excess. Even salt in excess is poisonous. The problem really is the amount we are consuming now. Additives are in EVERYTHING and people actually have to try to get away from it; pay a premium to get food without it. We're slowly consuming more and more additives in foods because it is cheaper to produce. With preservatives we can use more to create more products that last longer. Allll about the money.

[Derwyddon]

Luet and Ela - I said you both weren't eating enough because no matter what size you are unless you're a child or 3 foot tall you are not eating enough. People in comas are given more calories through an IV.

As far as who am I to give these recommendations? I am a NASM Certified personal trainer, a chef, someone trained in clinical nutrition, nursing, biology, and chemistry.

Ela, you sound rather hostile at my recommendations so sorry and I won't try to help again.

[Wil]

Luet and Ela - I said you both weren't eating enough because no matter what size you are unless you're a child or 3 foot tall you are not eating enough. People in comas are given more calories through an IV.

As far as who am I to give these recommendations? I am a NASM Certified personal trainer, a chef, someone trained in clinical nutrition, nursing, biology, and chemistry.

Ela, you sound rather hostile at my recommendations so sorry and I won't try to help again.

Normally I would agree with you except that I'm not normal. If you've ever been over to the Crossfit site/forums, you'd know how popular Crossfit is. Workout facilities and groups in every major town across the USA and in other countries as well. They have their own certification classes too. They're big supporters of the ZONE diet. Essentially just maintaining a 60/30/30 carb/protein/fat ratio in the foods they eat.

ZONE works on blocks. You eat blocks of protein, carbs, and fat to equal a total amount per day. 7g protein, 9g carbs, and 1.5g fat (assuming there are 1.5g fat per g or protein) equal 1 block for each, respectively.

For a medium female 11 blocks is usually recommended over there. Doing the math (308 protein calories a day + 396 carb calories a day + 297 fat calories a day) means that they are only eating a little over 1000 countable calories a day. Of course, it's not just that simple -- there are other calories that should be/aren't counted, but that is the bulk of their intake. 13 to 14 blocks is normal for larger females. The girls on this diet aren't lifting pink weights and walking for exercise either -- they're keeping up a very, very rigorous cross training regime six times a week that includes lifting weights, bodyweight exercises, and various forums of high-intensity cardio.

However, by the time most people reach his or her weight goals they usually raise their fat intake 3x to 5x the normal to maintain their weight. Even at 3x on 11 blocks total they are eating nearly an extra 900 calories per day bringing them up much closer to a maintenance level.

You don't have to take my word for it by any means. Crossfit.org -- plenty of success stories and what not. They have some forums and those forums have their fair share of doctors and personal trainers as well. I'd say they have arguably some of the fittest non-professional people on this planet right now. Calories aren't the only determining factor in it all. I believe 1200-1500 is plenty for a woman so long as their diet is well balanced and complete.

[Ela]

Luet and Ela - I said you both weren't eating enough because no matter what size you are unless you're a child or 3 foot tall you are not eating enough. People in comas are given more calories through an IV.

As far as who am I to give these recommendations? I am a NASM Certified personal trainer, a chef, someone trained in clinical nutrition, nursing, biology, and chemistry.

Ela, you sound rather hostile at my recommendations so sorry and I won't try to help again.

Sorry you think I sound hostile. I just think you need to read more carefully and get more information before you make recommendations. I appreciate your attempt to help, but I am not finding your recommendations that helpful in my case. What is your source of information for calorie intake and exercise?

Specifically, where are you getting your information about caloric requirements?
According to the Merck Manual:

Typically, to maintain body weight, sedentary women, young children, and older adults need about 1,600 calories a day; older children, active adult women, and sedentary men need about 2,000 calories.[emphasis added]

But I am not trying to maintain my weight. I am also not in my 20s. My metabolism is slower and it's harder for me to lose weight than it used to be.

Here'san interesting page from the USDA about calorie and nutrition requirements.

People in comas are given diets based on their own special medical needs, and I don't think that's really applicable to people who are not in a coma and are in good health.

By the way, I came across this interesting post on calorie intake and weight loss while surfing the web today. It should be the first link on that page. When I tried to link directly to the page, it asked me to log into Medscape.

[VelvetElvis]

Wow. Who knew the excercise thread would become a war zone? Well, maybe just a police action zone.

[Dr. Mobius]

As far as I can tell, no one really knows what the hell they're talking about but each insists that their own brand of BS is the only right way. Why don't we move this to R&MP? It'll fit in better over there.

[Derwyddon]

I just think you need to read more carefully and get more information before you make recommendations. I appreciate your attempt to help, but I am not finding your recommendations that helpful in my case. What is your source of information for calorie intake and exercise? Specifically, where are you getting your information about caloric requirements?

Years of experience with clients, my own 100 pound weight loss, college and medical education, and lots and lots of hands on experience helping people lose weight. All of these forms of information are much more reliable then the links you provided.

I can promise you the person who put together the programs on sparkpeople has a lot less college education and real world experience then I do. You don't have to take my advise, of course, but I promise it's sound advice.

[Derwyddon]

As far as I can tell, no one really knows what the hell they're talking about but each insists that their own brand of BS is the only right way. Why don't we move this to R&MP? It'll fit in better over there.

I promise I know what I'm talking about, however, I'm not interested in shoving my knoweldge down peoples gullet or arguing, I thought my advice would be helpful.

[Ela]

Years of experience with clients, my own 100 pound weight loss, college and medical education, and lots and lots of hands on experience helping people lose weight. All of these forms of information are much more reliable then the links you provided.

I can promise you the person who put together the programs on sparkpeople has a lot less college education and real world experience then I do. You don't have to take my advise, of course, but I promise it's sound advice.

Are you a registered dietician?

For the record, the links that I provided are from reputable sources, not pop science sources.

I don't care to have a fight about it, and don't understand why you seem to be so offended by my questions and comments. I didn't ask you for advice, you offered it. I said thanks for your input back up the page there, but you interpreted my post as hostile and responded in kind. You still seem to be responding to my posts in a hostile manner.

I don't know anything about you or your background. You similarly don't know anything about me or my background, but you seem to have made assumptions that I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't think it's unreasonable to request some background research information to back up your assertions. I guarantee you that even if it's technical, I have the background to understand it.

[locke]

Fight Gone Bad! again today, scored a 250, because I half-assed it on the box jumps in the second and third round, plus it was hard to do box jumps because there were other people in the gym using the bench I usually jump up onto. a pretty good workout, I can do better.

I'm thinking of adding a cardio session for cutting but I haven't decided yet.

I will start tracking my calories on spark people again as I'm completely stable at the weight i'm currently at and it's frustrating to see the seven day fluctuation down up, then down up again the next seven days. grr.

[Eaquae Legit]

It's 7am, and I'm awake and in a half hour I'll be walking to the pool. GAH.

[Dr. Mobius]

I thought my advice would be helpful.

Everyone thinks that, but it never does any good if the target doesn't want to be helped.

[Eaquae Legit]

Today I learned that the pool is almost twice as long as I thought it was. Honestly, this makes me feel SO much better about myself.

Sunday was a 800yd swim and today was 1000yds. Over the next few weeks I'm hoping to keep up the same distance but need fewer breaks. Eventually I would like to get back to being able to swim a mile, and then I'll stop and take stock and see what comes next.