I'm not asking, but...

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Re: I'm not asking, but...

Postby ClueInTheNewbie » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:29 pm

Reasons I Should Be a Mod:

1. I'd see myself as critical to the community, and take my role more seriously.
2. I'm almost always on the boards, ready to step in, if need be.
3. When I get an idea, I stick with it pretty well. However, I'll hear you out if you have a well-reasoned argument.
4. I'm not afraid of pissing some people off.
5. I can empathize with anybody I might be dealing with, 'cause I've prolly been in their position.
6. Knowing I COULD do something means more to me than actually doing it.
7. I don't always agree with the current mods, which would lead to a more sophisticated mod environment.
8. I know almost everybody, and almost everybody knows me.
9. I haven't (yet) entirely bought into the olbie-newbie divide.
10. I love this place, even though I've had my disagreements with it.
edit:
11. You can keep me from being a mod in ReMoPhi
1. What role? You have a role here?
2. Spamming the games room isn't a qualification for a mod-hat.
3. Wubba.
4. I'll give you that one.
5. You're what, 17? Go on, pull the other, it's got bells on.
6. :?:
7. Or dissension and squabbling.
8. You mistake "know of" for "like" or "respect." And s***, man, you shure as hell don't know me.
9. Newbies always say that.
10. That's nice.
11. If you can't be trusted to mod everywhere, why the hell should you mod anywhere?

One of the mods posted once about "Makers" and "Unmakers." There are those who build the community up and bring members closer together. People smile to see they've posted. And there are those who spread annoyance and discord. They make others feel unwelcome and embarrassed to be themselves.

Guess which onre you are? It's not a "cool" things. It's not edgy. It's not valuable, and it's not contributing. So take a look at yourself, and decide which you want to be. All the mods here are Makers (and most of us regular members). Acheive that, and then post again.
The first thing to know is, "It's not newb to rhyme with boob, it's newbie to rhyme with boobie."

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Postby Eaquae Legit » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:51 pm

Oh MAN! I was in the Red Fox alliance, too!

I miss the Calvinball days!
Me too!

And Catherine was in the Cheese Alliance - Cheese for everyone!
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Re: I'm not asking, but...

Postby eriador » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:00 pm

One of the mods posted once about "Makers" and "Unmakers." There are those who build the community up and bring members closer together. People smile to see they've posted. And there are those who spread annoyance and discord. They make others feel unwelcome and embarrassed to be themselves.

Guess which onre you are? It's not a "cool" things. It's not edgy. It's not valuable, and it's not contributing. So take a look at yourself, and decide which you want to be. All the mods here are Makers (and most of us regular members). Acheive that, and then post again.
Reality checks aren't always pretty.

Now I'm not claiming that everything I do has a more noble cause, but you can't make blanket statements like that. Nobody falls in one camp or another, and where anybody is at any moment is entirely subjective.

Achieve that, and then post again.

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Postby v-girl » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:15 pm

And Catherine was in the Cheese Alliance - Cheese for everyone!
Wow, you have a good memory. Who else was in that? Kimmie? I was in a few alliances in my prime, though some were rather short-lived.

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Re: I'm not asking, but...

Postby Wil » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:42 pm

Now I'm not claiming that everything I do has a more noble cause, but you can't make blanket statements like that. Nobody falls in one camp or another, and where anybody is at any moment is entirely subjective.

Why can't we make blanket statements or even mass generalizations? If it is the truth 90% of the time, or even 51% of the time, then isn't it the truth? If you are an unmaker in more than half your posts, then isn't it the truth?

Something you have to keep in mind is even if you don't unmake more than half the time, even just once can taint everyones SUBJECTIVE opinion of you. Just as one lie can bring doubts upon your truths. It takes three times as many positives to rule out even just one negative.

We make blanket statements about others all the time but it seems only the negative ones are debated. If someone were to say you are a good person wouldn't this be a blanket statement? Why is not this one debated? If you hurt someone and lie a few times, are you not still a good person in some eyes while being a bad one and a liar in others?

Subjective, as you said, and unfortionately it seems that 99% of the people here find that you hold more negative values than you do positive ones. Thus if maker = positive and unmaker = negative, it is entirely acceptable that you be labeled an unmaker by these people here on this forum.

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Postby Claire » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:48 pm

Eriador, I think that everybody is happy with the way PWEB is run right now except for you. Why should we change everything around to suit one person? I don't want change, I love PWEB the way it is :D

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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:23 pm

Same. Except I thought that was before you, too. It was during my first hiatus, I know, which I could swear was before you signed up. When DID you first register?
I signed up the first time a few weeks/months before Ye Olde crashed. So, I can't really lay claim to being a 'member,' since I wasn't regularly on even during that time, but I did see a little. Then I registered again in November 2001. Then, I just lurked around here and posted in the more OSC-related sections. There were breaks in my lurking and quasi-posting, but I eventually came back (basically) for good in 2003.
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Postby SaintDrogo » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:26 pm

I'm so not choosing sides about this, but as to a few things:

-about the noob stuff: "Do we have to learn to fight from a launchy?" "Yes." "He could walk right between my legs without touching my balls!"

Remember how people who pick on newbies are portrayed sometimes.

-and as to everyone being happy about the way it's run, and all mods should agree and everything... isn't it the voice of dissent, the random differences that cause change for the better and evolution?

This just seemed a really good portrait of someone getting slapped down by "the establishment." I mean that objectively, I have no idea how things were before, or any opinion as to who should be mods.
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Postby eriador » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:06 pm

-and as to everyone being happy about the way it's run, and all mods should agree and everything... isn't it the voice of dissent, the random differences that cause change for the better and evolution?
Well said! Claire, take note ;)

@Wil: do I have to care?

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Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:20 pm

-about the noob stuff: "Do we have to learn to fight from a launchy?" "Yes." "He could walk right between my legs without touching my balls!"

Remember how people who pick on newbies are portrayed sometimes.
*patpat* That's cute. :)

It's been said before, it'll be said many times after this. This is a community and you have to earn your way in. Sure, new people have some good things to say but it doesn't mean they know the lay of the land. Watch a little and figure out the rules, and you'll be fine.

Or do what Eri does and annoy the living daylights out of everyone.

And no one is saying we should all be lemmings and do/think the same things. We all disagree with each other, quite a bit actually. But we're not all asshats about it.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:31 pm

Saint, I'm sorry, but I don't really think those are relevant or valid points.

We're not "picking on newbies." In fact, Pweb is one of the most open sites I've come across. Yes, it can be intimidating for someone new, just because there's so much history here. But that history is what makes us who we are; we've spent years making this place our home. Once you get past the initial nervousness, Pweb can be (and is) very open to new members. But, with embracing new people into that community, we're also very aware of the direction our community is going. Like I said, we've spent years shaping it, forging relationships, and making memories. So, while we're generally welcoming of new people, we're not as welcoming of one of those new people trying to tear down everything we've worked hard to create. Do you see where I'm going with this?

As far as the other bit, he's certainly allowed his opinions. He can disagree with the way things are run. But, this is a privately owned and operated website. Our moderators are volunteers, all of whom are well-respected. We might not always agree with their decisions, but we do recognize that decisions do need to be made and that they will be fair-minded in their decision making processes. And, if we do have a problem with a decision, we feel we can approach them with our thoughts and that we'll be listened to. We may not always convince them, but they'll hear us out.

The thing is, though, that we don't know him. Of the mods that currently roam the site on a regular basis (Ollie, Ali, and Jan), not one was a moderator when I originally signed up. For many, it's the same -- and for many more, it is especially true of Ali and Jan. So, these aren't people that we always here, always moderating. They're people who have taken the time to invest in our community and we've recognized their investment. We know them. The problem with making any new member a moderator is simple: they don't know the community the way older members do.

I really want to write more about this, but I've got a 2,000 word story due tomorrow morning and I haven't even started it. However, here are my responses to his original points:

1. If it takes a position of power for you to feel like you're valuable to the community, maybe we're not the right place to call Home. Moderators should be chosen because they are such a great asset to the community, not vice versa.

2. Believe it or not, being online constantly isn't a requirement of the job. We are such a slow-paced community (see Hatrack for a contrast) that 24/7 availability of moderators isn't really necessary.

3. While that's a great quality for a moderator to have, he has rarely, if ever -- in my opinion -- appeared as such. Moreover, there are many others whom are both respected and trusted that possess this trait and have demonstrated such.

4. The problem with not being "afraid to piss someone off" is that, while sometimes an admirable trait, it doesn't really account of the complexity of working relationships between and among the members. Being willing to follow through with a decision despite what people may think is nice, but not when it is to the detriment of the community.

5. Empathy is great, as is experience, but maybe if you've been in the same kinds of positions as people who are harming the community, maybe this isn't where you want to be.

6. Nobody really knows what they can do until they do it. I'm a firm believer in that idea. People always say what they would do in a given situation, but truth be told, it's only a guess -- sometimes an educated guess, but a guess nonetheless. Either way, if he's content with thinking he could do it (and do it well), then the discussion seems to be over.

7. I just don't buy this as an asset. The decisions of the moderators, believe it or not, are mostly agreed upon by the members. To be quite honest, it's usually a member that brings an issue to their attention for review. And, when we don't agree with them, we discuss it. I don't think throwing a wrench into a machine that seems to have been working quite well for years is a postive move for the community.

8. It's been said before, but I'll repeat it: knowing of people isn't the same as knowing them. While it may sound mean, the fact of the matter is that he simply hasn't invested the time necessary to develop the kinds of relationships with everyone that other people have. Moreover, even if it were true, he'd be far from alone in the department of both knowing members and being known amongst members. There are certainly several more-qualified members who can also make that claim.

9. Believe it or not, the divide exists. But, not as you may think its seen. It has nothing to do with a joindate and everything to do with being a positive part of the community and basically knowing how it operates.

10. Most of us love this place. If we didn't, we wouldn't spend the hours, days, weeks, months, and years that we have investing in it.

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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:32 pm

It's been said before, it'll be said many times after this.
"God I love being a turtle."

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Postby Gravity Defier » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:36 pm

It's been said before, it'll be said many times after this.
"God I love being a turtle."
An invisible, table-top turtle?

I just made a funny.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:42 pm

An invisible, table-top turtle?

I just made a funny.
Undetectable, too! Oh, how I miss the Steve-BC-Jota science debate team.

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Postby eriador » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:49 pm

:D

See if you can guess why I <3 this thread.

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Postby zeroguy » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:10 am

Who is Limegiver and what was his original name?
More like, who is Volfield and what did he pretend his name was for awhile? Oops, I might have just given it away. He'll always be vol to me.
Canadian Alliance:
Noodle
sandwich boy
Shatner
There were a lot more members than that, weren't there?

Also: how did "sandwich boy" get his name?

Hmmm, do we need a "pweb trivia game" thread? Ala the old E.G. and misc trivia threads?
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:21 am

I agree on the vol/LG front, but I figured more people would know him as LG.

And yes the CA was big. A lot more members. It started off pretty big and just got bigger from there. I don't think anyone could name every single member. Unless someone actually kept a membership sheet. I would look to the founders on that one.

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Postby eriador » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:19 am

Isn't there already pweb trivia somewhere? I never got into it because it's all that pre-eri history that's only barely interesting to a newbie like me.

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Postby SaintDrogo » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:35 pm

Actually, I wasn't intimidated about being a newbie until people started telling me I should be. I didn't think people really cared about elitist in-jokes here. I still don't really think that it comes up much, anyway, so I still don't feel like a noob or like anyone else is oldskool pweb or anything.

And you never said, nor did anyone, that he wasn't allowed his opinions. It just seems to me that often enough the mod community is validated by the idea that they all agree on stuff. That doesn't necessarily make for a good ruling class is all I'm saying. Just an observation.

And I figured a direct response to what I saw going on in the thread was "valid" and "relevant." I'll be sure to make certain what I have to say in the future is valid in the eyes of others.



EDIT: It didn't hit me for a couple of days, but wow are you patronizing! (quote: *patpat* That's cute. ) I haven't been patted on the head since I was a small, naive child and basically being told I was stupid. That's effing rude, too. I'm an adult and at least deserve a little respect.
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Postby eriador » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:52 pm

Eh. No worries Drogo. I dig you. And I am the top poster ;) Don't buy into that olbie crap, we're ALL the community, they don't have a monopoly. You're fine.

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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:09 pm

You may be the person with the most posts, but you are in no way a top poster.

Quality over quantity fella.

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Postby Eaquae Legit » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:10 pm

If we were trying to slap anyone down, we'd have locked, deleted, or otherwise mod-hammered the thread.

People in this thread aren't aiming to be exclusivist or elitist. Most people are going through Pweb Nostalgia, which just happens from time to time. Everyone thinks the forum's Golden Age was when they joined. We miss members who are no longer here, because they were/are our friends. A significant number of pwebbers have met in real life, become close friends, dated, broke up, counselled and consoled each other... Pweb may look like just an internet fan forum, but it's more than that. And we have a tendency to get nostalgic.

Things like "pweb quizzes" are tongue-in-cheek. Most of the "oldbies" weren't around for many of JL's trivia points, including me. But then, some of them are more recent events. Most people find out about them through threads like this. (Yes Ollie fits in Nomi's (Luet's) car trunk. Somewhere there is video evidence of this.)

We generally like new people. They bring new posts and new ideas to the boards. Think of yourself as "Class of Early 2008." It won't take long for you to settle in. I was the Class of Early 2002, along with JL, Charles, and Satya. I have particular memories of the Class of Late 2002 (Philly Boys, Kimmie, Ratesjul) and the Class of Mid 2003 (Rei, Jani, Alea) and even the Class of Roughly Late 2005 to Early 2006, known in my mind as The Mafia (we had a group at school with that affectionate nickname, plus it's fewer syllables). Already the folks who joined in January are settling in. Your names are common to see, and you have your own in-jokes developing. Soon we'll get another rush of newbies, and it'll all happen all over again. Pretty much the only time real anti-newbie sentiment comes out is when someone who is unaware that they are just the most recent part of the forum's history tries to tell us we aren't doing it right.

Until then, you're just going to get some ribbing. It happens to everyone. Just remember that people here genuinely like each other. (Not everyone likes everyone, but on the whole we get along.) People are beginning to like you and to fit you into their pweb psyche. Keep posting!
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:16 pm

Understatement of the year. You're pretty much alone in the intentionally-getting-yourself-banned department.
Satya's done it a few times. I'd still rather have him be a mod.
Satya earned his bans. Otaku was goaded into it from what I hear and still earned it. And I believe Jeebs has the record for most warnings without ever getting banned (or was he temp banned at some point? I don't remember).

All of those were for serious offenses. As far as I'm aware, Eri's the only one on the list who was/is nothing more than an annoying little s*** who literally asked for it.
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Postby Eaquae Legit » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:28 pm

Understatement of the year. You're pretty much alone in the intentionally-getting-yourself-banned department.
Satya's done it a few times. I'd still rather have him be a mod.
Satya earned his bans. Otaku was goaded into it from what I hear and still earned it. And I believe Jeebs has the record for most warnings without ever getting banned (or was he temp banned at some point? I don't remember).

All of those were for serious offenses. As far as I'm aware, Eri's the only one on the list who was/is nothing more than an annoying little s*** who literally asked for it.
Ah, but he earned some of them deliberately, as I recall. eriador earned his too, albeit with less... panache, but you're right, he's the only one who actually made a big verbal deal of it.
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:31 pm

And I believe Jeebs has the record for most warnings without ever getting banned (or was he temp banned at some point? I don't remember).
He was temporarily "banned" on one account, I think. But they never banned him altogether, even though he had over a half dozen warnings. His warnings were deserved, but nobody had the heart to ban him, because he was actively contributing.

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Postby Eaquae Legit » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:36 pm

And I believe Jeebs has the record for most warnings without ever getting banned (or was he temp banned at some point? I don't remember).
He was temporarily "banned" on one account, I think. But they never banned him altogether, even though he had over a half dozen warnings. His warnings were deserved, but nobody had the heart to ban him, because he was actively contributing.
Wait a sec. I know Jebus asked for a warning once, and did something deliberate to get it. It was back when we got the new colours for the banned/warned usergroups.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:41 pm

Satya earned it, but I would still take him as a mod over eri.

Otaku goaded? He was obsessed with post count. The mods played a joke by putting his post count into the negative. He threatened people's lives with crow bars. I don't really consider that goading and if you do, at the very least his actions were an overreaction and uncalled for.

His second banning I don't remember anyone goading him.

I don't believe Jeebs was ever banned. The only thing I can think of is when we had the warnings that prevented people from creating new threads. He got one of those and then began posting as Violet.

[Edit: There were also 2 other people banned on Ye Olde Pweb. Crazy Tom (I think that was the name) was a newbie spammer, was banned, later returned as Big Beans. And Loreths I don't remember why he got banned, I think it had something to do with the Otaku situation, but he came back as well.
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Postby Dr. Mobius » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:44 pm

Ah, the postcount prank was what I meant by goaded. That was all way before my time and the version I heard was a bit less violent.
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:54 pm

I don't remember how much detail he got into just that he threatened multiple people with a crow bar. I know Luet, pre-mod Ollie and possibly zero were all big posters back then, maybe they remember better than I because I was just a lurker during the aftermath.

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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:14 pm

I had to double post this one.
I'd take it, but before you try, I'd like to warn you that I'd be a terrible mod. Sure, I'd try my best, but in the end I would be no better than the biased ones we already have. Sorry to rain on your parade Nick.
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Postby Luet » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:34 pm

Yeah, Otaku and I did NOT get along. No one on pweb has ever pushed my buttons like he did. We eventually made our peace. But the threatening episode was something about hunting people down and doing violent things to them while they slept...in graphic detail. I don't remember the details. It was many years ago now.
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Postby eriador » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:22 pm

I had to double post this one.
I'd take it, but before you try, I'd like to warn you that I'd be a terrible mod. Sure, I'd try my best, but in the end I would be no better than the biased ones we already have. Sorry to rain on your parade Nick.
I found this beauty in the Suggestion Box thread on page 2. I admit that I chuckled a good bit.
I still agree with it. This thread was just for the positives. I don't wanna get started on the negatives.

Eddie Pinz
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Postby Eddie Pinz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:51 pm

That's fine. Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

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Syphon the Sun
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Postby Syphon the Sun » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:40 pm

Wait a sec. I know Jebus asked for a warning once, and did something deliberate to get it. It was back when we got the new colours for the banned/warned usergroups.
He had two warnings on his normal account during the color bit. I think he had at least one before that. And then, the usergroups were deleted or something and everyone was reset to zero. At which point he earned a few more. His Violet name was warned multiple times, too. If I remember correctly, it was eventually banned, though maybe not.

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zeroguy
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Postby zeroguy » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:44 am

I was the Class of Early 2002, along with JL, Charles, and Satya. I have particular memories of the Class of Late 2002 (Philly Boys, Kimmie, Ratesjul) and the Class of Mid 2003 (Rei, Jani, Alea) and even the Class of Roughly Late 2005 to Early 2006, known in my mind as The Mafia (we had a group at school with that affectionate nickname, plus it's fewer syllables).
Holly carp, you remember each year? It's hard enough for me try to remember who's in the "before me" and "after me" categories.
I don't remember how much detail he got into just that he threatened multiple people with a crow bar. I know Luet, pre-mod Ollie and possibly zero were all big posters back then, maybe they remember better than I because I was just a lurker during the aftermath.
I don't know how much of a "big poster" I was then; I think I was still new, and quite stupid as I recall. I think I remember being friendly with him for awhile, but some stuff caused us to dislike each other. I vaguely remember the crowbar thing, but I don't imagine that bothering me. Maybe it was just him being belligerent/a dick, or something involving Chibi, I dunno.

Ever since Pweb II crashed (or possibly before), I've completely lost track of who was using what duplicate names, so I don't even bother to figure out which user he is anymore; I don't remember or don't know the last time I even said anything to him.
Yeah, Otaku and I did NOT get along.
Few people did, I recall, at least around the height of his activities. (Except maybe for some ignorant little fanclub he had at one point... I think.)

Random note: I had no idea that "otaku" was a word for a long time after I new "Otaku"s name. I think it was vol who finally clued me in.
Proud member of the Canadian Alliance.

dgf hhw


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