The Race Relations/Diversity/Equality Thread

[Eaquae Legit]

I like plaid better, myself.

[zeroguy]

As far as what I was referring to above, successful tends to mean a black individual who has achieved middle, or upper-middle class socioeconomic standing or better without being a professional entertainer or athlete, and of course, without earning income illegally.

And I would contest that the above is certainly not everybody's goal.

And I can't really think of a reason why being well educated shouldn't be a universally positive attribute.

When I see the overly-educated, I see the frustrated, the sad, the insane-that-weren't-always. If your education is sufficient for what you need to do, why would you strive for more? See: Lagom.

[neo-dragon]

As far as what I was referring to above, successful tends to mean a black individual who has achieved middle, or upper-middle class socioeconomic standing or better without being a professional entertainer or athlete, and of course, without earning income illegally.

And I would contest that the above is certainly not everybody's goal.

Who's goal isn't to not be be poor? Notice that I'm not talking about being rich here, I'm just saying middle class. Okay, if you're born into a really tough situation you're primary goal may just be survival, but if you offer such a person a decent job and a comfortable living, who's going to say, "no, thank you. I'm quite happy living paycheck-to-paycheck and worrying about if all the bills will be payed next month."

And I can't really think of a reason why being well educated shouldn't be a universally positive attribute.

When I see the overly-educated, I see the frustrated, the sad, the insane-that-weren't-always. If your education is sufficient for what you need to do, why would you strive for more? See: Lagom.

All I said was "well educated", but I guess that is a bit vague. It's like saying "well fed". I think we'll all agree that it's a universally good thing to be well fed, but gluttony isn't a good thing. "Well educated" can just mean having a high school diploma. Are there any advantages to not at least having a high school diploma? Are there any disadvantages to having one?

[Syphon the Sun]

It is telling (and very sad) that every day (or so it seems) I read about a new kind of American.

Sometimes, it's fun being a history major.

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic.

There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

All courtesy of Teddy Roosevelt.

And, of course, Woodrow wasn't thrilled with the idea of hyphenated Americans, either.

Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.

[Gravity Defier]

Politicians. Which are typically white, rich, and male (I don't think they've ever felt threatened; I'll keep that dagger, thanks.).

I think there are more absolute ways of keeping the country divided and that starts with economics, not race/culture, though they are very closely linked in this country.

[eriador]

I think there are more absolute ways of keeping the country divided and that starts with economics, not race/culture, though they are very closely linked in this country.

Amen.

[zeroguy]

Who's goal isn't to not be be poor?

Those who take vows of poverty? Plenty others, I'm sure.

who's going to say, "no, thank you. I'm quite happy living paycheck-to-paycheck and worrying about if all the bills will be payed next month."

A wise person

I think there are also people where it doesn't even factor in to their desires. No preference either way; it just doesn't show up on the radar for them.

When I see the overly-educated, I see the frustrated, the sad, the insane-that-weren't-always. If your education is sufficient for what you need to do, why would you strive for more? See: Lagom.

All I said was "well educated", but I guess that is a bit vague. It's like saying "well fed". I think we'll all agree that it's a universally good thing to be well fed, but gluttony isn't a good thing. "Well educated" can just mean having a high school diploma. Are there any advantages to not at least having a high school diploma? Are there any disadvantages to having one?

Yes, if it's "more than necessary". Necessary could be nearly any level; a high school diploma isn't required for every single thing.

Everything I've said above is either conjecture or anecdotal, though, with no way of producing evidence or anything like that. So, I see little point in debating it further.

[neo-dragon]

Who's goal isn't to not be be poor?

Those who take vows of poverty? Plenty others, I'm sure.

What's the point of bringing up rare exceptions when we're talking about society as a whole? It's like saying that humans don't have a biological imperative to reproduce (or more specifically, to have sex) just because priests are celibate.

When I see the overly-educated, I see the frustrated, the sad, the insane-that-weren't-always. If your education is sufficient for what you need to do, why would you strive for more? See: Lagom.

All I said was "well educated", but I guess that is a bit vague. It's like saying "well fed". I think we'll all agree that it's a universally good thing to be well fed, but gluttony isn't a good thing. "Well educated" can just mean having a high school diploma. Are there any advantages to not at least having a high school diploma? Are there any disadvantages to having one?

Yes, if it's "more than necessary". Necessary could be nearly any level; a high school diploma isn't required for every single thing.

In theory, an education is more than just job training.

You're right though, there's not really a point in debating this further. It seems we just differ in our personal philosophies.

[Eddie Pinz]

Does any one else hate the melting pot analogy? Because I do. I always preferred the salad analogy. Where the individual parts still have their own identity even though they are part of a greater whole.

[Eaquae Legit]

Who's goal isn't to not be be poor?

Those who take vows of poverty? Plenty others, I'm sure.

What's the point of bringing up rare exceptions when we're talking about society as a whole? It's like saying that humans don't have a biological imperative to reproduce (or more specifically, to have sex) just because priests are celibate.

Actually, it adds to it. Those who take vows of poverty and celibacy are giving something up. It's not that the imperative isn't there. If it weren't there, celibacy or voluntary poverty wouldn't exist as a concept.

[zeroguy]

Who's goal isn't to not be be poor?

Those who take vows of poverty? Plenty others, I'm sure.

What's the point of bringing up rare exceptions when we're talking about society as a whole? It's like saying that humans don't have a biological imperative to reproduce (or more specifically, to have sex) just because priests are celibate.

You seemed to think it was a goal shared by all, for which I was attempting to show a counterexample. Shared my most perhaps; but that's just the way things are. "Vow of poverty" perhaps was a poor choice of words or bad example; as EL says, it implies a promise to do contrary to one's desires which would contradict my point. There are people who give away their possessions to achieve simplicity, are there not? Those are whom I meant to point out.

In theory, an education is more than just job training.

Agreed. But that which is not job training I would say is undesirable, although most don't believe so. This is simply a difference of philosophy as you said, but it should show that not everyone wants higher education. (For whatever defition of the phrase.)

[Eaquae Legit]

I was looking for a different thread, but I saw this one and wanted to revive it a bit.

In the EG Movie forum, we got the news that Hollywood is trying to make the cast full of white kids. OSC is resisting, and I'm glad of that. Most of the world isn't white at all, and if Battle School is a truly international endeavour, that would be reflected in the population of kids. So then I was thinking, do people still really get upset if their movies aren't "white" (aside from the obvious suspects)? Does a multi-ethnic movie really bring in fewer viewers? I thought we'd gotten past that.

What about you? Are you less likely to go see a film if the cast is multi-ethnic? If you're white, do you discount "black" movies even if they might be really good? If you're black, would you be more likely to go see a "black" movie, even if you suspected it was going to be crap?

Did anyone notice the wonderful blend of skin tones and accents that the Harry Potter movies introduced? I've noticed, since being in England, that the BBC (and British studios in general) seem less concerned about race. I see shows all the time over here that feature a mixed cast, and it's done without the sense of there being "token" characters. It's really nice, I admit.

[neo-dragon]

Personally I've never been put off by the ethnicity of the cast in a film, and I don't think that the general public is nearly as frightened of seeing non-white stars as Hollywood executives seem to think. A good film is a good film, and a bad film is a bad film. I think it's as simple as that.

[Janus%TheDoorman]

I'd certainly expect to see a multi-racial cast of kids in Battle School. Characters like Alai, Hot Soup and Petra demand that sort of thing, and it'd just be unnatural if there were token racial characters against a whitewashed background.

Also... truthfully I've been very, very disappointed in "black" movies recently. Films like Jason's Lyric, Hoodlum, and though it's not so much a movie, Roots, were great films in their own right, but now we get shoveled crap like ... geh, I can't even remember the name, but it was a two hour music video for Chris Brown that had something to with holidays...

There's a reason these movies are called blaxploitation, and quite frankly, I'm less likely to see a "black" movie these days because more often than not they're worse about portraying the actuality of the black community in America than movies outside the genre.

Before I get too far off track, though, I was wondering what PWeb could tell me about Louis Farrakhan. If the wikipedia article's any indication, he does seem to have crossed the line between radical and ridiculous, but I'm trying to get a sense of who he was in the eighties or thereabouts, and I'm wondering if the PWeb members who are old enough to remember when his controversies broke around that time could give me their impressions of him.

[Wil]

Personally I've never been put off by the ethnicity of the cast in a film, and I don't think that the general public is nearly as frightened of seeing non-white stars as Hollywood executives seem to think. A good film is a good film, and a bad film is a bad film. I think it's as simple as that.

QFTx2.

I don't care who is in the film or what color they are so long as I enjoy it.

[neo-dragon]

I stole this from hatrack: Stuff White People Like
.
.
.
No cracks about black people liking to steal, or I'll bust a cap in yo ass!

[Wil]

That list confuses me. I think it's supposed to be a list of stereotypes of white people? It probably applies to about half, if not more. I think the list would be more accurate if you tossed "democratic" or "hippie" or "liberal" or "progressive" in the title, though.

Am I supposed to be offended? Annoyed? It just confuses me.

101 - Not so much an issue for me, but I think this is applicable for all humans.
100 - I hate bumper stickers.
99 - I try and do my best with grammar, but I'm not a bitch grammar nazi about others grammar.
98 - To me Ivy League = expensive bragging rights?
97 - What the s*** is a scarve?
96 - $20 shoes at Payless or something is what I wear...
95 - I've never been to or seen a Rugby match...
94 - I think we should have this actually...
93 - I totally pirate music all the time.
92 - I pirate books too...
91 - Moar like San Fagcisco amirite?
90 - I like parties that include food.. could be around dinner...
89 - I <3 Corned beef and cabbiage
88 - I have a gay cousin...
87 - I run/workout/exercise/work outside in a light pair of shorts and a shirt.. or if it's cold then a hoodie and some sweats.
86 - What else is there in the summer? Wearing long pants in the summer is silly, and I'm not one for speedos...
85 - The Whutthefuck?
84 - Again, what else is there? Suits? Long Sleeved Shirts? How silly...
83 - Never went to highschool.. not sad I missed that big drama fest...
82 - I hate Microsoft.. but that's because they wouldn't fix my xbox. Otherwise I don't care...
81 - What a lot of time and money to spend so you can make people address you as Doctor. "The Doctor", on the other hand...
80 - Soccer is perhaps the sissiest sport it seems like, but I don't like many sports anyways.
79 - Modern furniture? If by that they mean furniture not made out of sticks and vines then I love modern furniture.
78 - I wish I knew more than one language but, alas, I never got around to learning another language. I do think it a good idea for children to be taught multiple languages however, because they can pick them up easily.
77 - I hate musicals. I f****** HATE musicals.
76 - I <3 water in all forms. Though, white people do seem to drink a f****** of water from bottles.
75 - LOL. Oh jesus I love this one. It made me laugh so hard. IF BUSH WINS I'M TOTALLY FUKIN MOVIN TO CANADIA!
74 - I don't watch award shows...
73 - I confess, I had to look this one up.. and I still don't know what the hell it is. Like... making old s***** homes into nice ones? That's cool I guess...
72 - Did you know that in most other countries Universities 80% is considered a GREAT score for tests and papers and stuff? That's because 30% of the questions are more difficult and often not included in your studies. Sounds stupid to me...
71 - <racist>Black people smell, Asians make me look dumb, and I can't understand Indians. Where the hell are all the whities at?!</racist>
70 - ROFL. White people, again, do seem to bitch and bitch and whine and whine about breaking up.
69 - Whozat?
68 - Whuzat?
67 - Never been to a concert, so it's hard to say what I would do at a concert. What kind of concert should be the question!
66 - White people do seem to get divorced a lot...
65 - <sexist>Bitches (read: women) can't compete with men!</sexist> No, really, I don't care. I mean, I don't think it's fair to put a smaller woman up against a larger man in some sports... but if it's popular have at it...
64 - Did you know that in Las Vegas (maybe EVERYWHERE) the garbage company charges US to sort and set out paper, plastic, and glass and then them come and pick it up? f*** that...
63 - I love sammiches. But I'm a cheap son ofa bitch.
62 - This one just screams hippie...
61 - I love biking. No way in hell you'll find me biking more than ~10 miles though.
60 - Pretty cool cars. Don't own one.. but most cars will likely end up becoming a hybrid eventually.
59 - My mothers friend once took some herbal s*** to "flush her colon" and apparently for the next week her poop wasn't solid but came out in quarter size 'dollups'. I'm 99% sure that's not natural.
58 - f****** Wapanese...
57 - Not a bad movie, but not by any means was it a good one. It was average.
56 - White people (in America) do seem to sue a lot.
55 - I'M SORRY!
54 - What the hell is a kitchen gadget? Like a rotato? And a gizmo can opener?
53 - i think dogs is a pretty cool guy. eh is mans best friend and doesn't afraid of anything.
52 - I sometimes see her ad's on Comedy Central when I watch South Park. I don't think I've ever laughed...
51 - I like the ocean, but I don't think I'd ever live by one. Too many natural disasters that can happen. But, let's be honest. Living in a desert sucks lots of nuts. I know, I live in one!
50 - I love irony.
49 - Old cars are pretty cool... but I'm a fan of new stuff.
48 - I once stopped in a Trader Joes to pick up some tea. I got two small boxes of tea. Checking out, the lady asked me if I wanted a bag. I said no because, really, I could carry them because they weren't that big or heavy. She said "That's very green of you sir.".... I felt like saying "On second thought, I'll take each of those boxes quadruple bagged and then placed in a paper bag please.
I shop at Walmart, Smiths, and Vons.
47 - Oh man, that's another funny one. Remember my mothers friend from above? She has an Arts Degree and never used it. Her son has an Arts Degree and he works at Kholes.
46 - I get my news from Google...
45 - I like Asian food (hell, I like almost all food)... but someone explain to me what the hell Asian FUSION food is? I'm cheap, remember...
44 - I listen to radio sometimes...
43 - In Utah they have the Shakespearean Festival every year.. good plays.
42 - The last time I tried sushi I wanted to vomit. Maybe I just didn't try the right sushi. I generally like my meat to be cooked and warm though...
41 - I like music, I don't care if it's Indian.
40 - I like my iPod because it's a very nice MP3 player. Macs are pretty damn sexy, and iPhones are pretty damn nice. As stated before, I'm too cheap for that s*** though.
39 - I used to use Netflix because I was too afraid of getting busted for downloading movies in the interbutts. That is, until I discovered the wonders of usenet!
38 - Isn't that a television show on Fox? The only Fox shows I watch are Prison Break and House. It isn't Lupus.
37 - I like renovating a house...
36 - I enjoy breakfast. I don't care where I get it from...
35 - I've seen a few clips, but I don't actively watch them. Hear they are funny though.
34 - i hear architects is a pretty cool guy. eh draw buildings and doesn't afraid of anything.
33 - I see nothing wrong with smoking the ganja... I wouldn't do it though.
32 - f****** vegans. We're f****** omnivores for a f****** reason! But seriously... meat is good. You not eating meat doesn't make you any better than me! You're like mac owners...
31 - I like snowboarding...
30 - Baseball? I've been to a few baseball games. Never been to Wrigley Field though. I'd probably go if someone asked me to.
29 - RICK ROLL'D
28 - I could live without a TV because I can get television shows from the interbutts. I could even hook up meh gaming console to a computer monitor. Not having a TV so you can say you don't have a TV is retarded though.
27 - I like running, but not for that long.
26 - I'd like to visit...
25 - Whotheballs?
24 - I hear Wine is good for you. Should drink a glass a day, they say. I don't, however.
23 - Er.. okay?
22 - That is kind of weird... and I don't think it's sexist for a woman to take on the guys last name. Compromise though...
21 - LURN 2 RITE IN 4 WEEKEND CLASSES -- WRITE YOUR FIRST NOVEL TODAY!
20 - When they say culture it makes me think of when you have strep and the doctor sticks the q-tip down your throat.
19 - I LOVE traveling. Everyone should travel. Soo much neat stuff to see.
18 - I like being aware... it's good. Like, it'd be pretty hard to J-Walk if I wasn't aware. It'd also be hard to make fun of AIDS if I wasn't aware that it was in the pool.
17 - HAHAH. I love my parents because they put me up, buy me food and clothes, let me drive their cars, and pay for my schooling. But seriously kids, love thy parents.
16 - Indigo children? Oh, wait, do you mean the retards? Retards should be aborted. Seriously. Retards are stupid and a pain in the ass. Uhm... </a******>?
15 - I like stretching because I dislike not having a full range of motion in my muscles.
14 - I don't care what color my friends are, so long as they don't try and steal from me. Ohshi...
13 - I love tea.
12 - Non-Prophet Organizations?
11 - Asian girls are so damn hot. Asian-white girls are much hotter though. And I'm not just saying that.
10 - I thought that train movie was kind of dumb...
9 - I love outside, I just hate bugs that bite me. Bugs that bite me are outside, and are usually out in the summer. I hate the cold. None of those variables add up so I stay inside.
8 - Bitch be trippin' balls... and bad pastors.
7 - Diversity is good, but bad. If we were all caucatinoican-american, we'd have no problems.
6 - Organic food is good because I'm not a fan of eating drugs.
5 - I think I went to a farmer's market once...
4 - lol?
3 - I like movies...
2 - Such rebels these children are these days...
1 - I hate coffee. More importantly, I hate people that feel they must drink it every day to survive the day. Or to fit in. But I hate coffee...

Okay, that took me like an hour. I'm sure nobody will read it, but I was bored!

[zeroguy]

What's so great about that link is that the comments are awesome, too. From the #101 comments: "Its hard for a white person to not get offended because they are always right."

In all seriousness, I sometimes wonder about the offended thing. I mean, has there ever been a successfully offensive ethnic slur for white people? I don't know of any, but maybe that's just the US (and other predominantly White areas).

Thanks, neo. I think the only thing I disagree with is the Sarah Silverman thing; I wasn't aware anybody liked her. And apparently I hang out with the wrong white people who like Dane Cook... And what, no "Wayne Brady"?

[Wil]

Yeah, apparently CRACKER is supposed to be offensive but it just makes me want to eat crackers.

ETA: Apparently, talking to someone, "Cracker" referes to someone who was cracking the whip over a group of slaves. Which makes a LOT more sense.

I thought it was because crackers (saltines) were white...

[neo-dragon]

I thought it was because crackers (saltines) were white...

So did I...

[Gravity Defier]

Wearing long pants in the summer is silly

I wear pants all year round, including in our 120F summers. Then again, I'm not white, so that probably explains that one.

[Wil]

You see, when it is hot it is generally an easy way to cool down by wearing less, or lighter clothes. So, wearing pants in the dead of summer is quite silly.

[Jayelle]

Wearing long pants in the summer is silly

I wear pants all year round, including in our 120F summers. Then again, I'm not white, so that probably explains that one.

I don't understand how that makes sense. What does skin colour have to do with pants?

[neo-dragon]

I seldom wear shorts either, and I don't even have air conditioning. I like sleeveless shirts though.

[Gravity Defier]

Wearing long pants in the summer is silly

I wear pants all year round, including in our 120F summers. Then again, I'm not white, so that probably explains that one.

I don't understand how that makes sense. What does skin colour have to do with pants?

List? Stuff white people like? Wil made a comment? I was joking?

Am I making that little sense? If so, I blame it on the 2.5 hours of sleep.

[Jayelle]

Yeah, I should read a whole thread before commenting.

I still have no idea why you would wear pants in summer. Then again, I live in Winterpeg and only have shorts/skirts/capri weather for 4 months, so I really enjoy it.

[neo-dragon]

A random incident that happened to me last night:

For those who don't know, I'm a high school teacher and I also happen to be black. Last night was parents night. Unlike the last school that I worked at where most teachers get to conduct their parent-teacher interviews alone in a classroom, at my current school a bunch of teachers just get their own little section of the cafeteria. Consequently, many parents passed by my table on their way to meet with other teachers.

While I was waiting for my next appointment to arrive a black couple and their daughter passed in front of me. The father slowed as he walked by and then stopped altogether.

"And when do we get to meet this young man?" he said, looking at me with a smile. His daughter just looked embarrassed. She wasn't even one of my students. Still, I rose from my seat to shake his hand and introduce myself. He told me his name and and went on to say, "It's good to see one of us here." I smiled back, unsure of for how to reply for a brief moment before saying the only response that came to mind: "There aren't enough".

He nodded, smiled again, and said, "keep up the good work." His daughter then dragged him off to their next meeting, leaving me at my table feeling that much more had been said in the brief encounter than just the handful of words that were exchanged.

[Jayelle]

Don't you teach in Toronto? I would think it would be fairly ethnically diverse... so that seems weird to me.

Or am I mistaken? Are all the other teachers white?

[neo-dragon]

Not in Toronto, but near. I won't get more specific than that. Suffice it to say that the teacher population is not representative of the community at large. Teachers are mostly white. I'd estimate as high as 75-80% in my experience. Principals and vice-principles even more so. At the last school I taught at, which had a staff of over 100, I was one of only 3 black teachers. I'm not sure how many there are at my current school. It's a big place and I haven't been there long, but I don't think I've seen more than 3 not counting myself.

[CezeN]

EDIT

[neo-dragon]

It mostly just makes me feel awkward.

[Gravity Defier]

"It's good to see one of us here."

I'd rather hear that from other Mexican-Americans than what I typically hear: You're not one of us. Awkward maybe but at least it's inclusive if it has to be anything at all.

[Valentine]

In relation to something brought up way earlier, I don't necessarily identify as white. I'll identify as Italian or Cuban when I'm talking about my love of food or my hot temper. I really don't feel any affinity towards my race on a whole, however. On the other end of the spectrum, my boyfriend definitely does. Every time we pass another black person, even in other states on vacation, he nods at them. I honestly think it's more often minorities that identify with their own race. I do have a strong affiliation with my cultural background. My family is heavily Italian on my father's side, and French/German/Austrian (technically, it's one city on the border that changed ownership many times throughout the years) on my mother's side.

To bring up a new line of conversation, I'm dating a black man, as referenced in my prior paragraph. He constantly brings up the fact that we're interracial, which is honestly something I never really think about. The majority of my friends in college were black, and as such, it's something I'm used to. We're in the middle of Tennessee, which is pretty southern. I can see the cultural difference in our hometowns, easily. Being from Miami, diversity is second nature.
His friends are predominately white, and they tease him about how "white" he is. Sometimes, I feel as though he's slightly self-cautious about dating a white woman. The other night, I had a dream about him dating some other woman. I brought it up jokingly, and he asked what she looked like. When I told him, he said, "No, was she white or black?" I said white, and he asked if I thought he couldn't get a black girl - in a very serious way.
Should I take offense to that? It sometimes makes me wonder if he'd rather be with someone of his own race, which makes me slightly uncomfortable.

[neo-dragon]

That sounds like the opposite of the Marriage Squeeze phenomenon. It's supposed to be black women who are insecure about getting black men.

[Wil]

Sounds kind of ironic to me considering I always thought the stereotype was that black men had a desire to "be with" white women. Just goes to show that there are always exceptions.

I don't think race, color, background, or sexuality matter so long as you both love (on some level) each other!