Cheating...

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Is phone sex cheating

yes
34
97%
No
1
3%
 
Total votes: 35

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Cheating...

Postby thoughtreader » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:55 pm

cheating...

everyone has their own ideas about what is and isn't cheating, flirting, hand holding, kissing, sex.....

But what about phone sex?

what is your opinion.

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Postby Rei » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:38 pm

I think a big aspect of what cheating is lies in the intent behind a given act. Another big aspect is how that given act is perceived by both the person it is with and the person who it is notably not with. Personally, I tend to view any break in loyalty to a person as a form of cheating, or being on the scale of things that are related to cheating, whether emotional loyalty, physical loyalty, honesty, etc.
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Postby Young Val » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:28 pm

I'd consider it an emotional betrayal, yeah.
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Postby neo-dragon » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Call me old fashioned, but yeah...

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Postby Jayelle » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:58 pm

It seems like all this setting lines as to what is cheating, what's not cheating is just a way to justify doing what you want to do. If you're trying to get away with anything without your sig. other knowing about it, it's pretty much cheating. If you feel the need to hide it from your significant other, then chances are, you shouldn't be doing it (whether it's kissing, holding hands, phone sex or whatever...).
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Postby Eaquae Legit » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:02 pm

It seems like all this setting lines as to what is cheating, what's not cheating is just a way to justify doing what you want to do. If you're trying to get away with anything without your sig. other knowing about it, it's pretty much cheating. If you feel the need to hide it from your significant other, then chances are, you shouldn't be doing it (whether it's kissing, holding hands, phone sex or whatever...).
Very good definition, Jan.
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Postby KennEnder » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:00 am

What Jayelle said.
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Postby BonitoDeMadrid » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:14 am

What KennEnder said.
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Postby Wil » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:12 pm

What BonitoDeMadrid said.

Side note (to make this thread a bit less.. repetitive ;)): WTF us up with phone sex? I mean... to me.. it just sounds like the most awkwardly weird conversation that can possibly be had over a telephone. I quite honestly do not understand how it can be done without laughing. In my head the conversational course required for it to work just sounds so hilarious that I can't believe it can be taken seriously.

P.S.: If one is against casual sex but is a casual phone sexer (haha), couldn't they be considered the same thing... really? Sort of like a double standard. I dunno.

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Postby Darth Petra » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:27 pm

Yes. Sex is sex, no matter what form of sex it is, and is therefore cheating.
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Postby daPyr0x » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:22 pm

I fully agree with what Jan said. Cheating is about the emotional act and not the physical act. If you feel it's something you should hide from your significant other, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
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Postby thoughtreader » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:37 pm

I think cheating is an emotional and physical act. Feeling like you need to hide it from the person you're with during the act... then you're doing something you shouldn't.

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Postby Petra456 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:50 pm

I agree, phone sex is cheating. Like pretty much everyone else said, if you feel like you have to hide it, then it's wrong.
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Postby neo-dragon » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:55 pm

This discussion is no fun because everyone agrees.

So... what about pornography? Does viewing images or videos of naked or scantily clad individuals count as cheating?

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Postby Eaquae Legit » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:33 pm

Are you trying to hide it?
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Postby anonshadow » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:39 pm

I think that cheating is interacting on a sexual level with someone else without your partner's permission. Viewing porn isn't interaction, but it's something that they may prefer you not do, and while I don't think that watching porn is cheating, that doesn't necessarily make it okay.



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Postby neo-dragon » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:00 am

So let's run with that. Why is it not okay, in your opinion?

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Postby KennEnder » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:24 am

To illustrate: Is fantasizing about someone else (especially while "entertaining yourself") being unfaithful?

If so, then I'd have to say that viewing porn is also a form of cheating... one normally views porn to "escape" (or expand?) the relationship you are in and there is a good chance you are not fantasizing about your significant other while viewing porn, so you are not exactly being "faithful" to the thought of her/him.

Of course, strict "moralists" have always agreed that pornography is "amoral," which explains why there are such crazy pornography laws in so many places; it even seems that pornography is "more illegal" than extramarital activity sometimes... probably PRECISELY because it is such an "easy" way to cheat, and "encourages" people to fantasize about impossible relationships. Some even see it as a form of "rape," from what I understand.
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Postby daPyr0x » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:00 am

K.E.'s response is a very "Christian" response, rewording "thou shalt not lust" into more common terms.

As far as I'm concerned, that reasoning is flawed based purely upon the idea that we, as human beings, fantasize about a "better" life all the time. Everyone dreams of what they'd do if they won the lottery, the only real difference here is that it's something that's of a more personal and (obviously) sexual nature.

Fantasy, whether it be of a sexual nature or not, isn't a bad thing. We laud children for being imaginitive and willing to act out their fantasies with their friends/siblings. We've all played cops and robbers, etc. Personally, I think of pornography (actually moreso the accompanied "entertaining yourself" is nothing more than a sexualized version of this activity that was such a big part of our childhood. I think that if anything, partners should be delving into this fantasy world together, rather than keep it a seperate thing.

However, I also recognize that what seems harmless to me can be something completely different to my significant other. With that in mind, my conclusion would be that viewing pornography is only as wrong as your relationship allows it to be. If you are in a relationship where your significant other is hurt or offended by your viewing pornography, and considers you fantasizing about other women to be cheating, then you shouldn't be doing it.

The point is, it's only wrong if you and your partner define it as wrong. I understand that it's not the kind of topic that comes up in regular conversation (...at least, not for me); but if you wish to do something like view pornography, which can be viewed either way, then you need to be open with your partner about it.

Here's an easy way to demonstrate my point. You go out for dinner and a movie with a member of the opposite sex from work. Are you cheating?

The question here would be if you feel the need to hide this from your significant other. While some S.O.'s may be more jealous than others, and it's understandable to wish to keep it a secret for reasons other than guilt and shame, the fact is that if you don't feel you can tell your S.O. then it's cheating, or close enough to not make a difference.

Technically speaking, you've not really done anything wrong. The classic definition of cheating involves some sort of physical act. If you ask me, though; if you have to hide any part of what you're doing, whether it's in alone in the privacy of your own home with all the lights off, or in the back seat of someone's car; it's cheating.

Be open, be honest, be straightforward. Then you can't be accused of cheating.
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Postby Luet » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:16 am

I think cheating is an emotional and physical act. Feeling like you need to hide it from the person you're with during the act... then you're doing something you shouldn't.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think thoughtreader was saying that she doesn't thing phone sex is cheating. Because she defines cheating as being both an emotion AND a physical act and phone sex would just be an emotional one? Or did I read that totally wrong?
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Postby neo-dragon » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:54 am

I'm going to guess that she considers it to be cheating since no one has voted "no".

As for my question about the porn, I don't think that it counts as cheating since I think that cheating has to involve two parties. An actress in a video doesn't count, it's really nothing more than a visual aid for... well, you know.

However, I can understand why some people (men or women) could have an issue with their partner viewing it. In that case, you need to work something out, which could mean stopping all together.

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Postby BonitoDeMadrid » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:15 am

Actually, I believe that viewing pornography is not cheating- as long as it doesn't involve interaction with someone other than your partner.

(If viewing pornography, or "entertaining yourself" were cheating, all men- save for the deeply religious and some others- would be quite alone right now, if you know what I mean..)
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Postby KennEnder » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:53 am

Just to set the record straight, I have nothing (personally) against pornography (or phone sex, although the appeal of that eludes me, for the same reasons Wil said). Then again, I'm single, so right now it could hardly be considered "cheating." But even in a relationship, I can't seem to "constrain" my imagination! And, consequently, I always feel a bit guilty about what's going through my mind because I would LIKE to think that I am completely satisfied by my girlfriend. And I am... but that STILL doesn't stop my mind from doing its own thing sometimes. Okay, so I guess I'm human. But does that make me a cheater? I would prefer to be able to say "NO" but I can't really reason it out that way, no matter how hard I try. Do I think I am evil for my thoughts... no, not really, because I know I'm just human. But that doesn't mean I can't 'aspire' to be a 'better' human. (Whatever that means.)
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Postby zeroguy » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:47 am

As far as I'm concerned, that reasoning is flawed based purely upon the idea that we, as human beings, fantasize about a "better" life all the time. Everyone dreams of what they'd do if they won the lottery, the only real difference here is that it's something that's of a more personal and (obviously) sexual nature.

Fantasy, whether it be of a sexual nature or not, isn't a bad thing. We laud children for being imaginitive and willing to act out their fantasies with their friends/siblings. We've all played cops and robbers, etc. Personally, I think of pornography (actually moreso the accompanied "entertaining yourself" is nothing more than a sexualized version of this activity that was such a big part of our childhood. I think that if anything, partners should be delving into this fantasy world together, rather than keep it a seperate thing.
You don't watch videos of people spending lottery-won money, though, nor do you stare at pictures of money (well, maybe some people do?).

I think most people would not object to sexual fantasies (that's kinda hard to prevent, anyway); it's more of an objection to the supplementary material. Fantasy/imagination/etc. is often considered a good thing, but not if it goes too far. Too much envelopment in such fantasies is often considered bad, and it can be argued that supplementing the fantasy with physical stimulus outside your own doing. The stimulus could be visual (porn), or, well, any other sense; most people would be creeped out by touch, but many seem okay with visual, but they're just too different senses.

That said, saying "porn is bad" by itself is ridiculous. And I agree with the other points that have been said about "if you feel bad/have to hide it, it's probably wrong".
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Postby thoughtreader » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:20 am

I think cheating is an emotional and physical act. Feeling like you need to hide it from the person you're with during the act... then you're doing something you shouldn't.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think thoughtreader was saying that she doesn't thing phone sex is cheating. Because she defines cheating as being both an emotion AND a physical act and phone sex would just be an emotional one? Or did I read that totally wrong?
What I meant to say...
I think phone sex is cheating, it is an emotional act. It is also physical, you're "entertaining yourself" in place of the person on the phone with you. They can't touch you so you make up for the distance.

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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:31 am

The phone sex thing is tricky. I think it depends who you are having it with? Is it someone you have a personal relationship with? Are you calling one of them 800 numbers? The thing is, I don't see it as being emotional perse. I can be, but doesn't have to be. Some people get excited by phone sex the same way they get excited about porn, no emotion in it. Just a way to get off. Now, in a relationship, you should probably be having phone sex with your S.O. But I think that their are certain situations where it would be okay, but it would definitely have to be discussed.

I don't think porn is cheating at all. I see porn as a visual simulant and nothing else. Sometimes you have to relieve yourself and porn helps do that.

I have a couple questions, does anyone here think masturbation is a form of cheating when you have an S.O. with whom you are sexually active? I never been in the situation myself, but I know some of my friends get angry when they know their S.O. masturbated.

An interesting situation that I have run into is what I like to call "dream cheating". Is it cheating if you have sex with someone else in your dreams?

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Postby daPyr0x » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:56 am

You don't watch videos of people spending lottery-won money, though, nor do you stare at pictures of money (well, maybe some people do?).
No? Around here big lottery winners are publicized showing how excited they are to recieve their oversized cheques, and there are often ads showing people buying rediculous cars or walking out on their jobs etc. as a promotion to get people to buy tickets. No, it's not with "intent" the way pornography is, but lottery winning was just being used as an example to illustrate a point.

Something I neglected to touch on earlier is that there are different kinds of objections to pornography. There are objections on the basis that pornography, or viewing pornography, is wrong; and their are objections saying that doing so while committed is cheating.

I can understand a S.O. being feeling concerned or even jealous by their partner lusting over others. I've been there myself. However, as GS mentioned (Eddie PInz will always be GS in my mind :-p), wanting, or "needing" that release, is normal Being attracted to others in a sexual way is normal; and so is the response that follows that.

I don't think there's any reason for a S.O. to feel at all uncomfortable with their partner to masturbate. It's unrealistic for anyone to really expect someone not to do it at least on occasion, and it is no reflection whatsoever on how satisfied their partner may or may not be.

At the same time, if someone's really that uncomfortable with their partner's use of visual aids, they should provide something they're more comfortable with their partner using, if you catch my drift.

You can't stop someone from masturbating, but you can help make sure it's you that's on their mind.
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Postby neo-dragon » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:36 am


I have a couple questions, does anyone here think masturbation is a form of cheating when you have an S.O. with whom you are sexually active? I never been in the situation myself, but I know some of my friends get angry when they know their S.O. masturbated.

An interesting situation that I have run into is what I like to call "dream cheating". Is it cheating if you have sex with someone else in your dreams?
No, and no. Frankly I think that anyone who says otherwise is being pretty unreasonable.

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Postby Eddie Pinz » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:00 am

Neo,

The masturbation thing I think is more a self esteem issue, than a cheating issue. It's more of a situation like "I don't understand why you still do that, don't I please you sexually?" I have seen this happen with some of my friends and in some cases it became a real issue.

The "dream cheating" thing led to an interesting discussion between me and my current girlfriend. We both have had dreams where we cheated and caught the other person cheating. It is a strange feeling waking up from a dream angry at someone even though you know they didn't do anything wrong.

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Postby daPyr0x » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:31 am

Neo,

The masturbation thing I think is more a self esteem issue, than a cheating issue. It's more of a situation like "I don't understand why you still do that, don't I please you sexually?" I have seen this happen with some of my friends and in some cases it became a real issue.

The "dream cheating" thing led to an interesting discussion between me and my current girlfriend. We both have had dreams where we cheated and caught the other person cheating. It is a strange feeling waking up from a dream angry at someone even though you know they didn't do anything wrong.
It's definitely a self-esteem issue, which is why I suggested what I did. No amount of fighting is going to stop your partner from masturbating, so instead focus on making what it is they're doing bother you less. By giving them 'materials' for them to use makes you feel better, knowing that even though you're not the one "pleasuring" them, it's your image that's in their mind turning them on. As an added bonus, too, making those materials (while it may make you highly uncomfortable and take some warming up to) can help you with your own self-esteem, and help you to feel better about yourself long before you start trying to change any of your partner's habits.
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Postby anonshadow » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:38 pm

The concept of "dream cheating" is just ridiculous. You can't really control what you think about. You aren't guilty of murder if you kill someone in a dream, are you?

There are just some things that push the concept of cheating way out there. It being cheating because you had a dream about sex is pretty ridiculous; the concept of emotional cheating also gets to me a little. Most people end up with attractions toward other people, even emotional attractions. Those aren't a bad thing unless you act on them. I can understand why one's partner would feel uncomfortable, but if you want your partner to do more than moderate their (waking) actions, you're ridiculous.



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Postby Young Val » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:09 pm


I have a couple questions, does anyone here think masturbation is a form of cheating when you have an S.O. with whom you are sexually active? I never been in the situation myself, but I know some of my friends get angry when they know their S.O. masturbated.

An interesting situation that I have run into is what I like to call "dream cheating". Is it cheating if you have sex with someone else in your dreams?
No, and no. Frankly I think that anyone who says otherwise is being pretty unreasonable.
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Postby BonitoDeMadrid » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:43 pm


I have a couple questions, does anyone here think masturbation is a form of cheating when you have an S.O. with whom you are sexually active? I never been in the situation myself, but I know some of my friends get angry when they know their S.O. masturbated.

An interesting situation that I have run into is what I like to call "dream cheating". Is it cheating if you have sex with someone else in your dreams?
No, and no. Frankly I think that anyone who says otherwise is being pretty unreasonable.
Ditto.
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Postby KennEnder » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:06 pm

I have a couple questions, does anyone here think masturbation is a form of cheating when you have an S.O. with whom you are sexually active? I never been in the situation myself, but I know some of my friends get angry when they know their S.O. masturbated.

An interesting situation that I have run into is what I like to call "dream cheating". Is it cheating if you have sex with someone else in your dreams?
No way. I remember friends talking about such issues in HS, too, and some absurd demands were made by one side or the other. Face it, most kids' "First Love" was dear old Righty... or Lefty, when they wanted to "change things up." It may be difficult for the SO to handle, but if they're jealous of your hand, there may be other problems in the relationship eventually.
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neo-dragon
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Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:26 pm
Title: Huey Revolutionary
Location: Canada

Postby neo-dragon » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:43 pm

Even the whole self esteem issue is ridiculous to me. Let's face it, guys (and girls) have needs. And unless one's partner makes it a point to be sexually available 24/7 like some kind of human sex toy, it's only natural that one has to take matters into their own hands sometimes, so to speak. What's the alternative, be sexually frustrated and thus be more tempted to actually cheat?


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